Trade with EU

[JohnD]

You are wrong.

Of course an isolationist UK would lose trade if it exits the EU, no sensible person can deny that. In order to continue exporting into the EU, the UK will have to meet EU regulations. No sensible person can deny that. The EU regulations will be drawn up for the benefit of the EU members, and an isolated U K, no longer being one, will have no power in framing them. No sensible person can deny that.

It is particularly relevant to the financial services sector, which in the UK is bigger than our entire manufacturing sector. Currently, as one of the largest members of the EU and having the largest financial sector, we take a leading role in framing the rules, and have been able, for example, to block a transaction tax. If we leave, we will lose that. There are plenty of other European centres eager to take up the slack. As you know, Switzerland has recently had to agree to obey EU laws on banking and tax, despite not being a member and having no influence on them.

Britain and Europe are stronger together.

 

[Himaginn]

Sorry, John, you beat me to it.
But I'll let my comment stand as well.

It's quite odd, but almost the entire argument for the BSE folk here seems to hang on the fear that the EU will raise import tariffs on UK goods and services, remove this unsubstantiated belief and their argument disappears in a puff of smoke. There is no reason why the EU would raise tariffs on the UK at all.

I haven't bothered replying to your wild ludicrous comments so far, simply because they are wild and ludicrous. You make these specious comments without a shred of evidence, support or validation.
This current comment is so wild, ludicrous and specious that I'm even in two minds whether to bother on this occasion. Your grasp of the situation is either so juvenile, or you're just trolling to provoke a response. At the moment I suspect the latter. However let's see how we go, and I'll reserve judgement for now.

The potential trade deal, or more likely absence of it, is absolutely not the only argument. That's a strawman argument. Yet despite that fact, you've not countered it effectively.

Have you not been reading about security, cooperation, EU investment into scientific research? Having to comply without any influence. Having to pay into without any return. I could go on, but I've made the point.

You've made an assertion, which IMO is a wild, ludicrous assertion. All you've done is to suggest that the introduction of EU import tariffs are an unsubstantiated belief. You've made no attempt at supporting your claim with any justification, validation or counter-argument whatsoever. The potential EU import tariffs have been discussed in depth and detail previously. It has been justified and substantiated several times over, probably before you arrived.
After reading the "back issues" kindly justify your claim.

So, notwithstanding the rest of your strawman argument, kindly explain why you think EU would not apply import tariffs on UK's exports to EU, in the event of Brexit.
Just to be absolutely clear, justify this:

There is no reason why the EU would raise tariffs on the UK at all.

Just to be pedantic: it's not "raise", it's introduce tariffs, there are none at present.

 

[PBC_1966]

You suggested that UK exporters would pay them to make our exports as competitive as EU's own products.

I suggested that outside of the EU the reduced cost of operating a business would enable products to be sold at lower prices and that would offset any import duties buyers would have to pay.

 

[Davie Jones]

You are wrong.

Britain and Europe are stronger together.

Your opinion and the opinion of those who you choose to believe does not make me wrong. Britain is part of Europe and always will be, however Britain will be better off once it has removed itself from the EU. Europe is a continent, the EU is not

 

[Davie Jones]

You suggested that UK exporters would pay them to make our exports as competitive as EU's own products.

I suggested that outside of the EU the reduced cost of operating a business would enable products to be sold at lower prices and that would offset any import duties buyers would have to pay.

We could further offset these duties by raising import duties on EU products and services entering the UK...I would have to forget my next 5 series and rough it in a Lexus

 

[JohnD]

Of course an isolationist UK would lose trade if it exits the EU, no sensible person can deny that. In order to continue exporting into the EU, the UK will have to meet EU regulations. No sensible person can deny that. The EU regulations will be drawn up for the benefit of the EU members, and an isolated U K, no longer being one, will have no power in framing them. No sensible person can deny that.

It is particularly relevant to the financial services sector, which in the UK is bigger than our entire manufacturing sector. Currently, as one of the largest members of the EU and having the largest financial sector, we take a leading role in framing the rules, and have been able, for example, to block a transaction tax. If we leave, we will lose that. There are plenty of other European centres eager to take up the slack. As you know, Switzerland has recently had to agree to obey EU laws on banking and tax, despite not being a member and having no influence on them.

Very amusing that the idiot above avoids the body of my post.

 

[PBC_1966]

Have you not been reading about security, cooperation, EU investment into scientific research? Having to comply without any influence. Having to pay into without any return. I could go on, but I've made the point.

Not really, because we could ask if you have not been reading the comments which address these things which you believe are so wonderful about the EU.

Security: How is having almost open borders with the EU countries and less control about who and what enters the U.K. supposed to improve security?

Cooperation: How do all the countries being within the EU improve cooperation any more that if they just had summits between national governments, or worked through NATO or some other organization?

Investment into scientific research: From the U.K.'s point of view, it pays more into the EU than it gets back, so there is no net contribution from the EU to British scientific research. The same goes for any other country which is a net contributor. As for the others, perhaps they - as individual nations - receive some money which goes toward scientific research, but it's just come from other countries to begin with, and the scientific community was quite good at investing in international scientific projects long before the EU became involved. And if we look at the EU as a whole, for every pound/euro that the EU hands out in grants for research, it's collected more than that from some country to begin with in order to cover its own bureaucracy. Without the EU's red-tape and waste, there would actually be more funds available for research.

 

[Davie Jones]

I reply to the points that are relevant.. No point in getting bogged down in trivia

 

[JohnD]

...no sensible person can deny that...

Obviously the person currently using the name Davie Jones can deny it.

 

[Himaginn]

You suggested that UK exporters would pay them to make our exports as competitive as EU's own products.

I suggested that outside of the EU the reduced cost of operating a business would enable products to be sold at lower prices and that would offset any import duties buyers would have to pay.

Only if we didn't trade with EU, otherwise we're still bound by their regulations and legislation.
If we didn't trade with EU, we might as well apply to UN for third world status.

 

[Himaginn]

Have you not been reading about security, cooperation, EU investment into scientific research? Having to comply without any influence. Having to pay into without any return. I could go on, but I've made the point.

Not really, because we could ask if you have not been reading the comments which address these things which you believe are so wonderful about the EU.

Security: How is having almost open borders with the EU countries and less control about who and what enters the U.K. supposed to improve security?

Cooperation and sharing of information. Information sharing via EU-wide databases. Free flow of EU citizens. Interchange of ideas amongst EU forces and organisations.

Cooperation: How do all the countries being within the EU improve cooperation any more that if they just had summits between national governments, or worked through NATO or some other organization?

Answer as above, plus EU summits are specific to EU, not to all the other problems in the world which are addressed by the other summits and NATO.

Investment into scientific research: From the U.K.'s point of view, it pays more into the EU than it gets back, so there is no net contribution from the EU to British scientific research.

You're equating UK's EU subsidy with the returns fro scientific research. It's like comparing apples and oranges. You've already used the UK's EU contribution ten times over. You can't just go on saying we'll reimburse the EU lost contribution for everything.

As for the others, perhaps they - as individual nations - receive some money which goes toward scientific research, but it's just come from other countries to begin with,

But we receive the most.

and the scientific community was quite good at investing in international scientific projects long before the EU became involved.

Not as good as with the EU. We benefit from free flow of EU citizens also, not just one-way.

And if we look at the EU as a whole, for every pound/euro that the EU hands out in grants for research, it's collected more than that from some country to begin with in order to cover its own bureaucracy. Without the EU's red-tape and waste, there would actually be more funds available for research.

But the EU has an overall view and is not blinkered by national interest.

 

[JohnD]

It's amusing to hear that Fire and Grouch thinks that the EU will permit their banking and investment business to pass through the City of London if UK does not comply with EU regulations. Let's just check what Switzerland had to do recently....
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2015/05/27-eu-switzerland-taxation-agreement/

I'm sure PBC read this before, and is aware that the UK's financial services sector is much bigger than the whole of our manufacturing.

 

[Himaginn]

You suggested that UK exporters would pay them to make our exports as competitive as EU's own products.

I suggested that outside of the EU the reduced cost of operating a business would enable products to be sold at lower prices and that would offset any import duties buyers would have to pay.

We could further offset these duties by raising import duties on EU products and services entering the UK...I would have to forget my next 5 series and rough it in a Lexus

You'd have to forgo an awful lot more than that. All EU imports would be more expensive. IT would be tantamount to shooting ourselves in the foot.
However, we'd be forced to apply some import duties as a bargaining tool to try to force a trade deal. If we didn't apply some import duties why would the EU bother with a trade deal?

 

[PBC_1966]

Only if we didn't trade with EU, otherwise we're still bound by their regulations and legislation.

But as you keep conveniently trying to omit every time you say that, only those related to the trade. The U.K. would not be subject to every single EU directive which encroaches into every aspect of British life as at the moment.

 

[Davie Jones]

You'd have to forgo an awful lot more than that. All EU imports would be more expensive.

So buy from somewhere else for less and let the German motor manufacturers and French farmers starve...