Trillions of dollars wiped from stock markets..

[fillyboy]

It’s done on a large scale. The people doing it are billionaires.

I don’t know if it’s wrong or not

Spot on, it's where the big money is.

 

[denso13]

Plenty of people will have made a fortune off the back of Trumps recent announcement.

I know.

The money doesn’t just vanish like a dip in the housing market.

If no one shorts a stock, were does the money go if shares drop in value

 

[Deleted member 317777]

I know.


If no one shorts a stock, were does the money go if shares drop in value

No where unless they sell it.

 

[denso13]

I buy for £100, the value drops and I sell for £80. Where has the £20 gone.

 

[fillyboy]

I buy for £100, the value drops and I sell for £80. Where has the £20 gone.

And the broker fees, 20-30 quid.

 

[Deleted member 317777]

I buy for £100, the value drops and I sell for £80. Where has the £20 gone.

What are you trying to prove ?

I was saying that not all the money has been lost, far from it.

Sometimes I think you’re bored and like an argument.

 

[Notch7]

Is that Notchy proving my point ? Lol.

Proving you were wrong

Nwgs2 is always WRONG

Poor chap

 

[denso13]

What are you trying to prove ?

The shares lose value sometimes, with the lower price just being what people are prepared to pay. The "money" hasn't gone anywhere.

Similar to house buying/ selling, in fact.

 

[Notch7]

Plenty of people will have made a fortune off the back of Trumps recent announcement

And many millions will be worse off…..mostly those that voted for him

 

[Deleted member 317777]

..but where has it gone? If somebody had lost, surely someone else has gained? Money just doesn’t vanish into thin air unless it wasn’t really there in the first place.

Yeah, no, that's not how it works.

Think of the stock market like house prices. Your house is worth only as much as someone is willing to pay for it.

IT is saying no one has gained, it’s just like buying and selling a house.

I’m saying, he’s wrong, plenty people will have made money.

They made money by shorting the market!

Can you short a house !

 

[Deleted member 317777]

It would be interesting to see how many of the Trump administration are buying these stocks and shares at bargain prices as they plummet.
In a couple of weeks/months Trump will begin to reign back on the tariffs and pocket $$$$ when the markets recover.

Or shorted them…….

 

[IT Minion]

IT is saying no one has gained, it’s just like buying and selling a house.

I’m saying, he’s wrong, plenty people will have made money.

They made money by shorting the market!

Can you short a house !

That is not what I'm saying.

The stock market isn't zero sum. Value is lost or gained from thin air. Old theories claimed it was all representative of underlying value but modern takes accept a huge amount of it is emotions, perceptions and nonsense.

Shorting isn't required for that to happen either, it's a side show.

 

[fillyboy]

Lunch is for wimps.

 

[pete01]

Depends if they came to you for advice!!
Even passive investors, near retirement, would be daft to have their money in , what was it you called them, low cost index funds!
The motive here was simlar - imminent impact of Orange Man. watch the equities (shares rather than bonds) you're holding.
View attachment 378288
Green is gold, of which I bought some but not all at the best time, Orange is ManDy, Purple FTSE and Blue SPY500.
The dip will go lower I'm sure, but then should rally somewhat. I'll be looking for good quality strong stocks on the way back up (assuming.....)
I'll put the same funds up again in a week or so.

No, Tesla isn't something anyone would hold much % of "regardless". If M produces universal self-driving cars , new models, more cheaper cars, negotiates good deals in various countries , stops pratting about with Trump, etc, then Tesla would be much more investable.
Saying "Tesla has just gone down 10%" is silly. Nobody here claimed it was magic. Implying otherwise is JD trolling.

Bonds of varous qualities would make far more sense. The AAA rated bonds wouldn't flinch, but sit at the "bank rate", the low quality but higher yield corporate bonds would get hit when cos went bust, and then the higher rate convertible bonds sold to prop up other bonds.
The one I favor is around 80% high grade plus lower, which are manipulated (swaps carries & options traded), to keep the average up. It has rippled a bit recently but still positive over any couple of days. I expect it'll get hit for 1% or so, but it doesn't take too long to sell.
AFAIK the sensiblest thing to do with a pension pot you aren't using is to transfer 20k into an isa each year.
The money which went into the pension got the tax uplift, so all the years you keep it in there, its total yield is 20% ish higher.

However early we took slices from our pension pots the majority by far would be taxed. Worth avoiding high rate which of course is going to be easier for most.folk.
This is the ManDy fund I've shrunk into, shown here over the past 3 months. Unfamiliar wobbles in the past month. I've had a percentage China, India, Gold, Financials to boost the % a bit. You have to be very very careful not to "overweight" those. Financials particularly tend to swing, so you can time a "pop" and sell immediately, which is next day for a Fund.. It's fiddly but I'm learning. Yes it's a lot of work.
View attachment 378287




No. The unit of currency may as well be the Mars Bar. Houses became worth fewer Mars Bars than they were. That's all, no excess Mars Bars anywhere. Same number of Mars Bars buys the next house.

Not really, you give me five mars bars for my house and you only sell it for four, you can't come back to me for the missing Mars bar.

 

[Justin Passing]

It’s done on a large scale. The people doing it are billionaires.

I don’t know if it’s wrong or not

@Nwgs2 has a point here.
Morally is it right that money is used as an instrument to make money?
Like from the umpteen trillions of dollars of forex traded every day? Possibly not.
(Notchy and other lefty morons will moan that the poor can't do it because they don't have the money. They're wrong, of course, you can borrow a little and grow it. It's the thick who can't do it, they try horses. Maybe they win at 7:1 on Maximus, but then they dump the lot on one which loses.)

But I and many have been making from shorting the Nasdaq. Even I have been leveraging the move times +/-20.
Nobody can say it hasn't been predictable.
So when it drops 5%, I double my money, simples. Sell at end of day. Next morning, have another look. As long as the trend is A LOT, up or down, what you do is open the trade and watch, with your finger on the stop button.

"Pro" accounts have higher levers. (They can also use Options which mean much higher levers. Amateurs can do that too, but I haven't.)

It's not really hard in times like these. You look at the screen and follow everyone else. It feeds itself - positive feedback. People buy because it's going up. Same when it stops and falls, but have a look, it's not that sudden. Overnight is where the major risk is, so don't do that.

Billionaires will have made several billions per billion, not millons.
Though there is a limit, if your trade is big enough you affect the market. Not a problem at the millions or billions level in a trillions market.


--
I was amused by a Youtube vid for eToro, (which is an awful platform).
A woman was explaining her trade.. She also had a bunch of stocks she wasn't touching, which were all in the red. They were things which have been goin down for a good while "That doesn't matter, she said, those are investments".