I have no idea where the water mains enters - the stopcock is underneath my kitchen sink at the rear of the house, I do have a garage but it is separated from the house by about 7 metres.
Vaillant Ecotec 937 or Alpha CD50?
- Thread starter DrChaz
- Start date
I have no idea where the water mains enters - the stopcock is underneath my kitchen sink at the rear of the house, I do have a garage but it is separated from the house by about 7 metres.
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D
Doctor Drivel
Is there a water cock in the pavement?
Is there a tap in the garage? If so is it turned off by the stop cocks under the sink? Is there tarmac between the garage and house?
You could put an accumulator in the garage attic, board it and insulate around it. An accumulator stores cold water and charges it to the static mains pressure giving great flowrates. It gives high pressures and flows with a poor mains pipe. It only needs to be teeded into the cold mains pipe after the stoptap. A double check valve needs to be on the mains pipe. If there is mains outage you still have stored cold water. A 300 litre accumulator stores 150 litres. So no cylinders or tanks and an accumulator in the garage attic.
http://www.heatweb.com/products/accumulators/accumulators.html
http://www.heatweb.com/pdf/RWC/Accumulators.pdf
No water cock in the pavement that I can see, no water in the garage, and yes, patio and then tarmac across to the garage :S
The accumulator idea is well worth bearing in mind if I can't get the cold water flowrate I need off the main without rework.
At the end of the day, I don't want to go overboard, but I would like to be able to run a shower and have a hot tap turn on elsewhere without everything turning into a dribble - i.e. be able to satisfy a transient demand peaks without really noticeable adverse effects! Seeing a friend's 28kW boiler service a shower and then turn the hot tap on in the kitchen was just totally unacceptable to me - poor performance at both outlets instantly.
The accumulator idea is well worth bearing in mind if I can't get the cold water flowrate I need off the main without rework.
At the end of the day, I don't want to go overboard, but I would like to be able to run a shower and have a hot tap turn on elsewhere without everything turning into a dribble - i.e. be able to satisfy a transient demand peaks without really noticeable adverse effects! Seeing a friend's 28kW boiler service a shower and then turn the hot tap on in the kitchen was just totally unacceptable to me - poor performance at both outlets instantly.
D
Doctor Drivel
If you can get from the kitchen through the garden in a trench to the say the rear of the garage, then you can have one. A check valve after the stoptap (new stoptap), a tee and a25mm blue plastic under the ground to the accumulator. An isolator at the accumulator, from the stop tap 22mm to a combi, and that is it. Have the accumulator in the garage attic if space.
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Accumulators can be very effective if you have a reasonable pressure but no flow.
You have to be careful connecting them on the main inlet pipe because outside taps and the main sink tap should ideally be upstream.
A sprinkler or other static load connected to an accumulator will drain it, leaving the customer confused.
You have to be careful connecting them on the main inlet pipe because outside taps and the main sink tap should ideally be upstream.
A sprinkler or other static load connected to an accumulator will drain it, leaving the customer confused.
D
Doctor Drivel
That depends if the sprinkler consumes more than the mains can provide. A full charged accumulator will exhaust its charge only if the sprinker consumes more than the mains can provide. A 17 litre mains pipe can charge up a 150 litre water capacity accumulator in about 8 minutes from flat. In reality when drawing off water the mains pipe assists the accumulator in combining the two.
I see no reason to have the kitchen tap directly off the mains. An accumulator stores water and when a water outage the kitchen tap is still available.
There again, a hose pipe off an accumulator will benefit in flow - depending on initial mains flow of course. If the mains pressure and flow is good enough by itself then take it off the mains It is a matter of assessing the customers requirements and the mains flow and pressure. There are no firms rules on it.
Drivel wrote:
Not true.
The accumulator has an air bag which is partly pressurized by the incoming main. As the incoming main gets closer to equilibrium with the air pressure the flow rate drops. Therefore your recharge example is wrong.
For a similar reason your suggestion that the water main and the stored charge are combined is not a true representation of fact. You cannot size an accumulator on the basis of adding the water main flow rate to the flow rate from the accumulator. Simple physics prevent that, think about it.
The sprinkler example will drain the accumulator if the flow used by the appliance is greater than the input. Since the sprinkler will perform at maximum flow (allowing for pipe resistances etc) and thus higher pressure than off the water main direct, it is extremely likely that the accumulator will be drained.
It is recommended that the accumulator is fitted after the sink drinking water tap to prevent any problems of stagnation, for instance, if the customer went abroad for 6 months. Otherwise they would have to draw off about 260 litres when they came back.
I really think that you should send off for some installation instructions (tellingly I don't think they are on the internet) before offering advice on something where your knowledge is peripheral at best. Are you really an engineer?
Not true.
The accumulator has an air bag which is partly pressurized by the incoming main. As the incoming main gets closer to equilibrium with the air pressure the flow rate drops. Therefore your recharge example is wrong.
For a similar reason your suggestion that the water main and the stored charge are combined is not a true representation of fact. You cannot size an accumulator on the basis of adding the water main flow rate to the flow rate from the accumulator. Simple physics prevent that, think about it.
The sprinkler example will drain the accumulator if the flow used by the appliance is greater than the input. Since the sprinkler will perform at maximum flow (allowing for pipe resistances etc) and thus higher pressure than off the water main direct, it is extremely likely that the accumulator will be drained.
It is recommended that the accumulator is fitted after the sink drinking water tap to prevent any problems of stagnation, for instance, if the customer went abroad for 6 months. Otherwise they would have to draw off about 260 litres when they came back.
I really think that you should send off for some installation instructions (tellingly I don't think they are on the internet) before offering advice on something where your knowledge is peripheral at best. Are you really an engineer?
Doctor Drivel:
Yes I agreed with you, The tanks are in series. While reading the M.I and the drawing, I work out that, the main cold water goes to first tank and loop to second tank to hot outlet ( series ) while the water in first tank goes to HE and back to second tank then to first tank ( series ). When hot tap turn on, the both of tanks and the water heat exchanger running in parallel.
Am I right?
Yes I agreed with you, The tanks are in series. While reading the M.I and the drawing, I work out that, the main cold water goes to first tank and loop to second tank to hot outlet ( series ) while the water in first tank goes to HE and back to second tank then to first tank ( series ). When hot tap turn on, the both of tanks and the water heat exchanger running in parallel.
Am I right?
D
Doctor Drivel
That is what I said. When the pressure inside the accumulator is below the mains the mains water will flow in.
I never said you should.
It can't operate at a higher pressure than what the mains can charge it up to.
That is a recommendation. Many commercial buildings have their drinking water from tanks. If the factory is closed for two weeks in summer the same applies - but they don't.
From that company that patented the "accumulator", that never invented it?
Vaillants and con-companies is your field.
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