Well at least Labour
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Yes, some places used to have herd immunity to polio. This was achieved at the expense of large numbers of dead, paralysed, and permanently crippled, children, and infertile adults. Not many would want a return to those days.
Today Herd Immunity is often achieved by widespread vaccination.
If you decide to let millions of people catch a disease that will kill (say) a million of them, and you don't know who's got it and who's has it, you abdicate responsibility and cause panic. You do not have facilities to treat all the victims. Not even capacity to bury or cremate them all.
you need to know who's got it and is spreading infection (so they can be isolated and treated), who hasn't got it (so they need not be isolated and can continue about their business), who's had it (so they may not be at risk and can work as care attendent or body-collector), and who is at risk.
Not even NHS staff nursing the victims have been tested.
Without testing, the UK does not know when it has reached 60% or 80% immunity, and does not know if the herd is relatively safe.
What do you know about the Italian town of Vò?
Today Herd Immunity is often achieved by widespread vaccination.
If you decide to let millions of people catch a disease that will kill (say) a million of them, and you don't know who's got it and who's has it, you abdicate responsibility and cause panic. You do not have facilities to treat all the victims. Not even capacity to bury or cremate them all.
you need to know who's got it and is spreading infection (so they can be isolated and treated), who hasn't got it (so they need not be isolated and can continue about their business), who's had it (so they may not be at risk and can work as care attendent or body-collector), and who is at risk.
Not even NHS staff nursing the victims have been tested.
Without testing, the UK does not know when it has reached 60% or 80% immunity, and does not know if the herd is relatively safe.
What do you know about the Italian town of Vò?
here's the Director General of the World Health Organisation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=CHHCJFiDoR4&feature=emb_logo
All countries other than a few Asian ones have. It stems from flu and general epidemic control some learned from developing countries. The asian ones decided to add modern technology. One that I have read that Singapore added immediately has been added here now but could be rather late.
It doesn't take a brain the size of a planet to work out the main problems with both approaches but reading the general guide on the UK approach helps a lot. It explains why they haven't done a number of things too early. Just saying testing when it relates to 65 million people isn't that simple. Currently the immunity test would leave doubt about 6.5million of them or 10% of any number they choose. They ideally need a lot better than that and don't know how long immunity will last either.
Anyway we wont know what's next until there is a definite sign of a drop in hospital entries unless they go in a risky direction such as using the immunity tests that are currently available. Looks like they may have about 5 million of them and pre orders for another 17.5 hoping they will get better. There has been several ideas as to what they will do with lock down. They wont know how effective the current one is until it achieves something. Complete relaxation of restrictions looks to be very unlikely and solutions may well not suite everyone.
People need to realise that this virus is completely new and so far the most useful source of information is China. All countries are sharing what they know. The none invasive ventilators are on again now as well. Less worry about them spraying CV19 all over health workers. Seems these will be coming out shortly at 1000 a day if they hit targets.
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Does it take a brain the size of a planet to advocate testing of hospital staff?
What about testing people displaying signs of infection, or who have been in contact with a known infected person?
The reason we haven't been doing isn't because it is unwise or unnecessary. Cut through the reassuring Johnson waffle. The reason we haven't been doing it is because we are incapable.
Do you think testing can be done "too early?"
What do you know about the Italian town of Vò?
What does the pro-Johnson Torygraph say?
It says:
"Coronavirus testing: How Germany got it right, while the UK got it wrong
Ministers and public health officials face growing pressure to explain why Britain is struggling to match its European neighbour"
"On Feb 25, when much of Europe still believed it could avoid the coronavirus crisis, news broke that a 47-year-old man had tested positive in Germany.
As authorities raced to track anyone the sick man had been in contact with, a terrifying picture emerged. He had spent the previous 10 days at carnival celebrations where he could have infected hundreds of people.
But experts now agree Germany did one crucial thing right at that moment. It started testing everyone who had been in contact with the infected man.
Little more than a month later, Germany is now testing around 500,000 of its citizens every week.
Britain, meanwhile, is lagging far behind, with only around 8,000 people tested per day."
It says:
"Coronavirus testing: How Germany got it right, while the UK got it wrong
Ministers and public health officials face growing pressure to explain why Britain is struggling to match its European neighbour"
"On Feb 25, when much of Europe still believed it could avoid the coronavirus crisis, news broke that a 47-year-old man had tested positive in Germany.
As authorities raced to track anyone the sick man had been in contact with, a terrifying picture emerged. He had spent the previous 10 days at carnival celebrations where he could have infected hundreds of people.
But experts now agree Germany did one crucial thing right at that moment. It started testing everyone who had been in contact with the infected man.
Little more than a month later, Germany is now testing around 500,000 of its citizens every week.
Britain, meanwhile, is lagging far behind, with only around 8,000 people tested per day."
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Deleted2797112
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Herd immunity is a bi product rather than an aim.
Testing is a problem how ever it's done. Say they did 1 million viral tests a day. Still takes a long time to test the entire population so what does the population do in the mean time. If they passed they might go out and catch it. If they failed they may have recovered or may have died.
So testing needs to be controlled so that it's manageable. Firstly does some one have it when they end up in hospital. Get that wrong and the will be placed with people that do have it. 2nd health workers etc as we haven't got that many plus some will have it and some will recover. There are a lot of health workers so even testing all of them in one go is more than tricky.
The Torygraph's are just encouraging them to match Germany. Guess why. Idiots, they are just muddying the water. Germany will find themselves testing over and over again. It might help if they have isolated regions.
Large numbers of tests make more sense when the infections are tracked. It looks like people need a mobile phone and google type position tracking to really do that well. This is what the Koreans and others did. Like others as well they made a lot of use of thermal scanners. The Korean method still has holes. Some one has it and they know where they have been. They also know what others have been in the same area so they go into isolation and get tested. There is still a lag as people appear to be able to infect others before they have symptoms. NHS workers and other factors show that people can still infect others when they do have symptoms. When people suggest that people who show symptoms with things like flu and colds don't infect afraid it makes me laugh. Fine believe it if you like but it's a fallacy,
A university cleared an Italian town in a few weeks then had the cheek to say the UK could do the same. The town had 3000 people in it so was manageable. Can't see them even attempting it in Milan or Rome. Typical academics. London has 7million in it.
Even the immunity test in numbers is likely to be tricky.
Testing is a problem how ever it's done. Say they did 1 million viral tests a day. Still takes a long time to test the entire population so what does the population do in the mean time. If they passed they might go out and catch it. If they failed they may have recovered or may have died.
So testing needs to be controlled so that it's manageable. Firstly does some one have it when they end up in hospital. Get that wrong and the will be placed with people that do have it. 2nd health workers etc as we haven't got that many plus some will have it and some will recover. There are a lot of health workers so even testing all of them in one go is more than tricky.
The Torygraph's are just encouraging them to match Germany. Guess why. Idiots, they are just muddying the water. Germany will find themselves testing over and over again. It might help if they have isolated regions.
Large numbers of tests make more sense when the infections are tracked. It looks like people need a mobile phone and google type position tracking to really do that well. This is what the Koreans and others did. Like others as well they made a lot of use of thermal scanners. The Korean method still has holes. Some one has it and they know where they have been. They also know what others have been in the same area so they go into isolation and get tested. There is still a lag as people appear to be able to infect others before they have symptoms. NHS workers and other factors show that people can still infect others when they do have symptoms. When people suggest that people who show symptoms with things like flu and colds don't infect afraid it makes me laugh. Fine believe it if you like but it's a fallacy,
A university cleared an Italian town in a few weeks then had the cheek to say the UK could do the same. The town had 3000 people in it so was manageable. Can't see them even attempting it in Milan or Rome. Typical academics. London has 7million in it.
Even the immunity test in numbers is likely to be tricky.
Show me where you saw "the university" say that.
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Deleted2797112
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Not a paragon, but a nation doing ten times better than us.
Started earlier and did better.
You disagree?
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It’s too early to say they are doing better. There are pockets in the U.K. , like Italy and the US that are driving the numbers.
the one thing the U.K. could do to improve is friggin observe the lock down. All weekend I was hearing motorbike engines no doubt key workers on essential business. Large pelotons out cycling, no doubt all cohabitating in families that would dwarf the Von traps.
the one thing the U.K. could do to improve is friggin observe the lock down. All weekend I was hearing motorbike engines no doubt key workers on essential business. Large pelotons out cycling, no doubt all cohabitating in families that would dwarf the Von traps.
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