What Happens Here On P-Day?

[bodger67]

Does anyone have any links to sites that clearly define Part P, what we have to do to conform as DIyers and what we do/do not have to notify to building control?

 

[Paul_C]

Does anyone have any links to sites that clearly define Part P, what we have to do to conform as DIyers and what we do/do not have to notify to building control?

You can read the full Part P at the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister's website here (PDF, about 1.4MB):

Approved Document Part P

Here is the relevant extract setting out what is allowed without reporting to building control:

Table 1: Work that need not be notified to building control bodies

Work consisting of:

Replacing accessories such as socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses

Replacing the cable for a single circuit only, where damaged, for example, by fire, rodent or impact (a)

Re-fixing or replacing the enclosures of existing installation components (b)

Providing mechanical protection to existing fixed installations (c)

Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve a special installation (d) and consists of:

Adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an existing circuit (e)

Adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit (e)

Installing or upgrading main or supplementary equipotential bonding (f)

Notes

(a) On condition that the replacement cable has the same current carrying capacity, follows the same route and does not serve more than one sub-circuit through a distribution board.

(b) If the circuit's protective measures are unaffected.

(c) If the circuit's protective measures and current-carrying capacity of conductors are unaffected by increased thermal insulation.

(d) Special locations and installations are listed in Table 2.

(e) Only if the existing circuit protective device is suitable and provides protection for the modified circuit, and other relevant safety provisions are satisfactory.

(f) Such work shall comply with other applicable legislation, such as the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations.


Table 2: Special locations and installations (a)

Locations containing a bath tub or shower basin
Swimming pools or paddling pools
Hot air saunas
Electric floor or ceiling heating systems
Garden lighting or power installations
Solar photovoltaic (PV) power supply systems
Small scale generators such as microCHP units
Extra-low voltage lighting installations, other than pre-assembled, CE-marked lighting sets

Notes

(a) See IEE Guidance Note 7 which gives more guidance on achieving safe installations where risks to people are greater.

If the government believes they have any hope of actually enforcing that, they must be even more stupid than we thought.

 

[bodger67]

Thanks, Paul

I suspect it will be the insurers who will indirectly enforce it in time by saying that all work must conform or the policy is void. Otherwise, its down to the integrity of the individual and whether Joe Public gets to hear about it.

At least it gives the thinking DIYer some guidance, but it will have to be publicised well to have any effect on the less conciencious.

 

[jenki]

Just spoke with Bolton MBC - Asking for guidance on Part 'P', They basically told me that if i were to fit a kitchen, and do some electrical work, then, as a non- approved competent person, i would have to use a building note, for approval - the best bit is they said i would have to provide a Cert from a competent person i.e. enrolled with NICEIC / ECA etc. To prove the installation was OK So whats the point in getting them involved then - Any comments

 

[brown-nought]

jenki oh boy is confusion going to rein. If you do the work nobody including "Mr Niceic" or "Amicus Pro" can certify your work if you go the Building notice way without being appointed by the building inspector.

In fact if Mr Niceic decides to do his own kitchen and is registered via a limited company he is NOT authorised to certify his own work. That’s the beauty of the system.

 

[AdamW]

With the bottle-fed gas appliance, surely the gas regs only apply to fixed installations? Otherwise they would have to check every camper and caravanner in the country!

If this is a commercial install (which it doesn't sound to be, if a refill lasts you 7 months) then no doubt there is a legal requirement.

Saying all that, if it is unsafe then of course you shouldn't use it! Although I'm not certain it would be illegal to. Some (not all) CORGI-registered folk get very protectionist about their trade (one such gas fitter gave my dad a right bo**ocking and threatened to report him to TRANSCO, after inspecting his hob installation, despite finding nothing wrong with it!)

Let's hope the good sparks here carry on fighting dangerous installations by helping DIYers out. Because we all know that people will carry on regardless!

 

[Damocles]

As a general rule, no one should believe anything they read on the internet. Don't people know that? Only crazy people spend all day staring at the little screen.

I thought there as already a site disclaimer about accuracy of any and all advice ?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Does anyone have any links to sites that clearly define Part P, what we have to do to conform as DIyers and what we do/do not have to notify to building control?

You can read the full Part P at the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister's website here (PDF, about 1.4MB):

Approved Document Part P

Here is the relevant extract setting out what is allowed without reporting to building control:

blah blah blah.

Don't know if I'm being thick, but I've looked and can't see it. Nowhere does it say what BC have to do once you've notified them.

 

[Paul_C]

Don't know if I'm being thick, but I've looked and can't see it. Nowhere does it say what BC have to do once you've notified them.

Nope, it doesn't. Sorry if I made that sound as though this doc would provide all the answers, for it won't.

Several of us discussed this at length when the approved part P was released, and we all came to the conclusion that the thing is vague in the extreme. There are references to IEE Regs., but nowhere does it actually state that wiring must conform to BS7671, for example, despite what some sources say.

The list of works which may be carried out without notification is probably clearer than much of the document, but still open to varying interpretation in places, e.g.

Only if the existing circuit protective device is suitable and provides protection for the modified circuit, and other relevant safety provisions are satisfactory

Is anybody going to be able to actually understand what is included or excluded by that last phrase?

 

[bodger67]

I suppose that's where BS7671 comes in, and hopefully Mr NICEIC will know the answers.

For me it means that when I build my extension I'll have to get the circuit designed by an "approved competent person" who knows the rules (£££££££) and then get it signed off by BC (more ££££££££). Probably not a bad thing.

 

[pipme]

What if tester will not connect due to, let us say, marginally, in his opinion, - and we see how much total agreement there is in posts hereabouts - the rest of the installation COULD benefit from a rewire ???
If he has switched off before coming to this conclusion ... what if, as with Corgi, he refuses to reconnect ... You have no electricity, no chance of reconnect until rewired ??? .... This could be financially disastrous for a family .... I refer here to the possible accommodation costs etc ???
Is this a feasible scenario ?
P

 

[dingbat]

For me it means that when I build my extension I'll have to get the circuit designed by an "approved competent person" who knows the rules (£££££££) and then get it signed off by BC (more ££££££££). Probably not a bad thing.

If you are concerned by installation design, why not get in a registered spark to do the job anyway? That way you'll have no design or LABC fees to worry about and you'll get a proper, certified installation.

 

[alertelec]

As a general rule, no one should believe anything they read on the internet. Don't people know that? Only crazy people spend all day staring at the little screen.

I thought there as already a site disclaimer about accuracy of any and all advice ?

I'm right with you there mate, people give advice in good faith, its up to the recipient what they do with it, and it is their own responsibility for their own work.

However, given the litigious society that we have become, we have to cover our own back these days however much we don't like it.

 

[mapj1]

Although Niciec and Amicus members will not be allowed by their club rules to inspect and sign-off the work of others, NAPIT members can.
Furthermore NAPIT members will in many cases be the technical authorities that advise building control offices about work proceeding under a building notice (BCOs in most cases don't have the expertise in house).
As the NAPIT rules prohibit conflict of interest working - you should not profit from work on anything you inspect for a third party, this does eleiminate one source of potential conflict, although I'd suggest its not and ideal situation. Hope this snippet is of use.

 

[boyesey]

Does this also mean that B&Q will be closing the eletrical isle, and having a closing down sale in December to get shut of all the stock???