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What screws do I fix end panels to wall cabinets with?

Discussion in 'General DIY' started by Draughtsman, 26 Feb 2019.

  1. Draughtsman

    Draughtsman

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    Selco Paris Matt stuff, so 15mm MDF.

    Presumably I clamp panels and screw from inside carcass outwards into end clad panels, but no screws provided. No recommended clad fixing hole positions indicated on inside of carcass.

    What edge distances are recommended? Only a 16mm void so trying to lose some of the screw heads back there will be mighty close to the rear edge. Maybe one under each of the door hinges on the carcass?

    I was thinking 25mm screws, do you just use countersunk screws with some white plastic caps maybe (can't remember their names).

    Pilot holes for screws? Sizes? How many? Where do kit fixers generally put the clad panel screws?

    Thank you.
     
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  3. motorbiking

    motorbiking

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    I used pink grip
     
  4. foxhole

    foxhole

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    Just stick screw thru inline with shelf, does not need more than a couple .
     
    Last edited: 26 Feb 2019
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  5. Draughtsman

    Draughtsman

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    Doh!
     
  6. Tigercubrider

    Tigercubrider

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    I'lll be honest, I don't really care with my DIY. Although I might take more care if I was being paid.
    In the past I have just chosen the best location and gone for it.
    Not many people are sticking their heads in a cupboard to look at screws
     
  7. opps

    opps

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    If it is only 15mm I would recommend drilling a counter sunk clearance and pilot hole. If you don't you may end up pushing the end panel away from the unit and then find that you have spinning screws.
     
  8. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    Avoid cheap and nasty screws and either get appropriate length Hospa screws (specifically designed for MFC kitchen work) or a good quality self-drilling screw such as Spax or Reisser. You need to look at 3.5 or 4mm size. I never pre-drill as I found that doing that limits your ability to pull-in the deco panel. Don't use an impact driver for this inless you have a 3-speed of better model! Because deco panels are only fully foiled/wrapped on one side they can sometimes warp over time unless you have 4 or 5 screws holding them in place. Best places are up near the top of the cab (front and rear) where they cannot be seen other than by a PORG (person of restricted growth). Down near the bottom at the front I tend to hide the screw beneath the cruciform plate of the hinge, at the rear I stick the screw either behind the shelf or down a shelf peg hole. The deco panel needs to be held in place with a cramp or two at the front when screwing there. At the rear I try to find an "assistant" to push back (even a bag of spuds can work - and is sometimes found to be more intelligent than an apprentice.....). I always try to silicone to the floor when I'm done
     
  9. opps

    opps

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    How can screwing through a clearance hole do anything other than pull-in the panel? Assuming that the panel is not warped/cupped, tightening the screw can only pull the panel in. Not having a clearance hole pushes the panel away as the screw starts to exit the cabinet and hits the panel. Pre-drilling might take longer but it negates the need for someone else to push against the panel and it reduces the risk of the screw caming-out in the panel as you try to pull the panel in (admittedly less likely to happen with better quality screws).
     
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  11. blup

    blup

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    As said screw from inside panel, Spax are good, pilot the inner panel as it avoids risk of drilling through both. 25mm screw length avoids risk of screw penetrating through outer panel. Fix in pairs at equal distances, it looks much neater.

    Blup
     
  12. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    The screw heads are actually bigger than the 5mm diameter shelf pin holes. As you tighten-up the screw it compresses the MFC surface, but doesn't do a lot of damage. Because the lengths of screw you use are limited to 25 and 30mm (assuming an 18mm carcass and an 18mm deco panel) you don't want to risk putting a screw through the face of the deco panel My experience is that if you pre drill and countersink that's exactly what can happen (seen enough people do it).

    It also compresses the material beneath the head of the screw, which being chipboard can compress faster than you think. Because I tend to hide screws behind hinge plates, shelves, etc no damage is ever visible, and in any case the right screws make a lot of difference

    Which is the reason you don't do kitchen work with cheap screws - Hospa screws are the ones designed for the task

    BTW I generally don't need a second body - once I've fixed the front edge the top rear generally pulls in fairly readily and finally the bottom rear does as well
     
  13. ktuludays

    ktuludays

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    Paying customers do
     
  14. foxhole

    foxhole

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    Agree with Jobby, pilot unnecessary , screw thru , back off then screw again, negates any movement and you have screw in twice as much material .
     
  15. Draughtsman

    Draughtsman

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    Sry, my Vernier says MDF is actually 16mm (Selco). I was going to use screwfix goldscrews. What size pilots for 3.5mm screws?
     
  16. opps

    opps

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    But the only critical part is the thread embedded in the outer panel. It is the screw head that acts as a clamp to hold the two surfaces together (as is evidenced by the fact that not all screws have threads running along the full length). You are advocating screwing, unscrewing slighlty and then re-screwing to get over the jacking that occurs when you don't use a clearance hole. And the above doesn't take into account the fact that the lack of a clearance hole results in the outer surface of the the cabinet bulging as the screw passes through it- making it virtually impossible to screw the two surfaces perfectly flat and tight. Additionally there is a greater risk of over tightening the screw and ending up the threads on the outer panel doing nothing.

    Granted, when it comes to kitchen end panels the tiny gap wont make much difference but the text book way is to drill a clearance hole and in some cases a pilot hole. Yes, better quality screws may negate the need to drill a clearance hole (to a degree) but I have have encountered many occasions where I have had to dismantle MDF that has been fixed without clearance holes- as I loosen the screw it pushes the outer surface away and cams out the hole. I eventually have to drill new holes and fill the previous ones. That should not be possible when a clearance hole has been used. The screw has nothing to fight against when a clearance has been used.

    Sorry, I am not trying to be combative, in the majority of cases I respect your advice and that of JobAndKnock but when it comes down to pre-drilling I respectfully disagree.
     
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  17. foxhole

    foxhole

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    Each to their own.
     
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