When did earth sleeving become the norm?

[stillp]

Personally, I'd use brown/brown. I don't much like colour-coding, partly because of these 'special situations' where no colour seems entirely appropriate, and partly because of problems of colour perception that are found in about 8% of adult males. Then again, I don't do installations...

 

[PBC_1966]

As a slightly related question, does anyone have any views of what colours should be used to identify the conductors of a ('floating') AC SELV circuit? Table 51 only offers colours for Line and Neutral of single-phase AC circuits - concepts which obviously do not exist in a 'floating' circuit?

... so, to be compliant with BS7671, should one use brown+blue (arbitrarily), brown+brown or what?

Any one or two of the 10 possibilities listed here, surely? So brown & brown, brown & black, red & yellow, pink & white, orange & turqoise........ But not blue (assuming you're talking about a simple two-wire floating circuit).

 

[JohnW2]

Any one or two of the 10 possibilities listed here, surely? So brown & brown, brown & black, red & yellow, pink & white, orange & turqoise........ But not blue (assuming you're talking about a simple two-wire floating circuit).

Yes, I forgot that bit. I have to say that it would seem a bit odd to use two different colours, since that would tend to imply a difference between the two conductors which doesn't exist, electrically speaking.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Use the same colour, then.

 

[JohnW2]

Use the same colour, then.

If/when I want to identify such conductors, I do!

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Talking of colours, I have noticed the green change throughout the years.

The solid green of the 60's was a lighter shade, then later solid green and early green/ yellow was a darker shade, now it's lighter again.

There may have been all shades all down the ages, but that is my experience.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No, it doesn't. Nor should it - we have basic standards for that sort of thing.

I imagine that what BAS really meant was that BS7671 does nor refer to any Standards which define the colours it specifies,

Indeed.

I meant that it does not define what it means by "red", for example.

leaving the reader to make common-sense/'everyday' interpretations of what the specified colours mean.

Not necessarily a good idea.

If you were to take a random sample of the population I doubt that you would get a significant majority agreeing at what point red became orange, or orange became yellow, or yellow became green, etc.

On that basis, it presumably was free to include "cream" if it so wished?

Or where white became cream, or cream became yellow. Or beige.

 

[JohnW2]

If you were to take a random sample of the population I doubt that you would get a significant majority agreeing at what point red became orange, or orange became yellow, or yellow became green, etc. ... Or where white became cream, or cream became yellow. Or beige.

Indeed so - but even if the conductor identification colours were formally defined in BS7671, there would probably still be a proportion of the population (even of those with normal colour vision) whose interpretations/perceptions of the colours would differ from what had been intended.

The old red/black was probably correctly distinguishable by most people, even many of those with defective colour vision (or even no colour vision at all), but I think that brown/blue is probably a somewhat different kettle of fish.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

.. but Red and Green were not.

 

[JohnW2]

.. but Red and Green were not.

Very much not. The change to 'striped' (G/Y) was probably fairly clever, since, particularly if the green is fairly dark and the yellow fairly light, it does not require any colour vision at all to allow the conductor to be identified.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Indeed so - but even if the conductor identification colours were formally defined in BS7671, there would probably still be a proportion of the population (even of those with normal colour vision) whose interpretations/perceptions of the colours would differ from what had been intended.

Doesn't that just argue in favour of the idea of BS 7671 defining "red" to mean a particular standard colour or range of colours, BS381C, BS2660, BS4800, BS5252, RAL, Pantone, whatever?

 

[JohnW2]

Doesn't that just argue in favour of the idea of BS 7671 defining "red" to mean a particular standard colour or range of colours, BS381C, BS2660, BS4800, BS5252, RAL, Pantone, whatever?

That surely depends upon how those formally-defined colours correspond with the population's (variable) perceptions of colour to which you have already referred. The general public will obviously know nothing of the Standards.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnD]

If you were to take a random sample of the population I doubt that you would get a significant majority agreeing at what point red became orange, or orange became yellow, or yellow became green, etc.

But I'm pretty sure that if you pointed at a pillar-box, or a fire-engine, and asked your random sample what colour it was, I know what they would say.

 

[stillp]

Doesn't that just argue in favour of the idea of BS 7671 defining "red" to mean a particular standard colour or range of colours, BS381C, BS2660, BS4800, BS5252, RAL, Pantone, whatever?

That surely depends upon how those formally-defined colours correspond with the population's (variable) perceptions of colour to which you have already referred. The general public will obviously know nothing of the Standards.

No, the whole point is that a reference to, e.g., BS381C, removes any dependence on anyone'e perception of colour. The general public need not know of the standards for colour, just as they need not know of the standards for insulation co-ordination.

 

[JohnW2]

No, the whole point is that a reference to, e.g., BS381C, removes any dependence on anyone'e perception of colour.

Even though the definition is not dependent upon perception, the fact that a colour is formally defined not provide any guarantees as to how the public will perceive it.

However, before you, yet again, attempt to draw me into an argument about a view which you (incorrectly) claim I have, I agree entirely that if BS7671 is going to specify identification colours, it should define them, presumably by referring to some existing Standard. Nevertheless, as you have said yourself, identification by colour (alone) is probably not ideal, even if the colours are strictly defined.

Kind Regards, John