Why do we need negotiators?

[noseall]

There's lots of negotiating to be done yet,

Correct. Can't wait to see the promised papers on Brexit matters. No doubt they will be useful as flame fans.

yet you maintain that the negotiations are failing already

There was no 'Jonnyboy' journalist title on any of the dozens of Brexit articles I have read recently. Perhaps you would like to show us an article that paints Brexit in a positive light. We'll wait.....

Do you actually believe everything that comes out of a pro EU politicians mouth?

And the diatribe emanating from the squabbling, embattled pro Brexit politicians (front bench MP's no less) is just as unbelievable and even more worrying.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

The 'facts' are that we are Brexiting. ........

Get with it.

My comment to your "Brexit is a fact", about five pages ago:

Brexit is a political decision, and we as know from history, political decisions are easily changed. Think U-turns, especially those of Theresa May's.
Brexit is not some societal pre-determined path that you appear to assume it is!
As others have shown, democratic decisions can be changed! They are not foregone conclusions.

To draw an analogy along the same lines as your argument is like saying that "workers in Boardrooms" is a fact, and if you do not support it you are not supporting UK.

Or that the "dementia tax" is a fact, etc.....

A ridiculous argument!

 

[wobs]

I'm not sure if you're being ironic or moronic?

The 'facts' are that we are Brexiting. Who's hiding, and not seeking?.

Get with it.

Hiding from the fact that it is an act of self harm. That those in power are showing scant regard for the needs of the many, and for our economy.

If they were trying to minimise that harm, eg. by going for a Norway type arrangement, it could have minimised dissent. But what they are doing is the most dangerous approach, and when they contradict each other, when they come out with delusional statements, it calls for them to be called to account.

To support what they are doing would be in direct conflict with my conscience.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

To support what they are doing would be in direct conflict with my conscience.

Me too.
It is like asking everyone to support cuts in NHS, because it is current government policy, or Poll Tax, or the Iraq war, or any number of government initiatives which one may vehemently disagree with.

dissent - disagree
descent - going down.

 

[JohnD]

even Theresa can't get her underlings to agree with whatever her policy of the day is (nobody knows).

she keeps trying...

here's the latest unconvincing story

"CABINET ministers on opposite sides of the Brexit debate yesterday sought to shut down talk of Government splits on quitting the EU by launching a public show of unity."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/840669/Brexit-cabinet-tories-quit-single-market

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

The UK has set out the "ambitious new customs arrangement" it wants to secure with the EU after Brexit.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40922177
What is the point if EU have already said that no discussions about the post-Brexit arrangements can take place until after certain stages have been reached.
The EU will simply take the "proposal" and put it on the back-burner until such time it is ready for those discussions.
Is this new "new customs arrangement" more for the domestic consumer to say, "look we are doing something"?

 

[noseall]

From the EU side of things....
Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament's chief Brexit co-ordinator: "To be in and out of the customs union and 'invisible borders' is a fantasy. First need to secure citizens' rights and a financial settlement."

:: EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier: "The quicker #UK & EU27 agree on citizens, settling accounts and #Ireland, the quicker we can discuss customs & future relationship."

Seems to me like all they (EU bods) want is confirmation of a settlement before they even bother to negotiate. Fekking cheek considering we are in the stronger position and all. Tell 'em to do one.

 

[Corgigrouch GTi]

From the EU side of things....
Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament's chief Brexit co-ordinator: "To be in and out of the customs union and 'invisible borders' is a fantasy. First need to secure citizens' rights and a financial settlement."

:: EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier: "The quicker #UK & EU27 agree on citizens, settling accounts and #Ireland, the quicker we can discuss customs & future relationship."

Seems to me like all they (EU bods) want is confirmation of a settlement before they even bother to negotiate. Fekking cheek considering we are in the stronger position and all. Tell 'em to do one.

If they want to discuss a settlement, they they should present us with an itemised invoice... Surly that would be fair.

 

[noseall]

If they want to discuss a settlement, they they should present us with an itemised invoice... Surly that would be fair.

But we owe them nowt, so how can they. It is a bribe, pure and simple.

 

[Corgigrouch GTi]

But we owe them nowt, so how can they. It is a bribe, pure and simple.

But they said that they wanted to discuss it before they would negotiate anything else... Let them give us a bill, we will look at it, discuss it and then move on... It is their own time they are wasting..

 

[noseall]

But they said that they wanted to discuss it before they would negotiate anything else... Let them give us a bill, we will look at it, discuss it and then move on... ..

I'm sure you are not that naïve. We need to tell them immediately that no money will be paid and then tell them what we want.

It is their own time they are wasting..

UK business needs clarity also or doesn't the prosperity of the UK bother you all that much? If we are going to tell them what Quitters want - better to tell them now. People will be furious, including Quitters, if our stance is not put forward soon and end these silly games. They can afford to stall - we can't.

 

[JohnD]

If we are going to tell them what Quitters want - better to tell them now.

AFAIK even the Quitters have never actually agreed among themselves what they want. And the government is a coalition of chaos which contains all manner of quitters and antiquitters. The citizens of the country are hopelessly divided.

How can the government possibly put together a coherent case for our negotiators to work from?

 

[Deleted member 63160]

It is a mess for sure. Thank fook we haven't got Jezza and Diana dealing with it.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

It is a mess for sure. Thank fook we haven't got Jezza and Diana dealing with it.

I think Jonathon Ross and Russell Brand could do better than the current comedians.

 

[Roger928]

Could be a lot worse.
Comrade corbyn could be in power.