Why don't our wall lights work?

[Fishwalker]

Hi everyone!

We have been slowly renovating our hall and landing walls and ceilings - back from brick and lath the past two years and had some new electrics put in before plastering up.

Our electrician is young, slightly arrogant but suitably qualified and made a bit of a hash job of channeling out brick for cables to run (a lot of lime mortar was shaken out of bricks along the bottom of the 1925 walls which needed repairing and he left a right mess everytime he came round - 3hr clean up job) but otherwise he seemed to have done the jobs we'd listed in a written agreement - of adding new sockets and altering/adding lights. So we paid him and the rest is history.

We finally got around to wiring up the wall lights I'd chosen the other week after 2 years since starting and the wire work till then was just pushed back into the plaster from which it came out.

I had the electrician back round and he made me feel totally stupid for even asking what wire we had to pull out to connect up to what, as the wall lights are on a loop with their own switch but no seperate breaker at the RCD.

There are two grey cables coming out each hole in the wall (loop) and he said just connect live and live from each, neutral and neutral from each and block off the earth as it's not needed for wall lights.

So my Mr did that and was confident in his work. But not one light turns on!

We checked they were connected at the switches - taking off the fascia's and they are. Checked the RCD unit. All fine there. Bulbs that work an' all.

I've asked the electrician to come back and see what's wrong and he tried helping via sending photos back and forth but sounds like he is planning on charging us to actually sort them out.

We already paid for the first fixing 2 years ago and haven't been in a position to test any lights on these wires at any point (he didn't either) due to the place not being plastered and no lights bought.

Any ideas why they might not work?

So you think we should pay for him to sort them out?

If we have done something daft and missed an obvious thing then we're fine paying but shouldn't they just work, having followed his instructions to 2nd fix the light fittings ourselves, of which all are new IKEA lights and none work? We even tried a spare old ceiling light fitting and no joy.

I'm really worried he'll have to channel the wires back out the plaster board and lime plaster on one wall and lift new carpets upstairs which we've recently had fitted!

 

[martygturner]

in one picture the wires are fully inserted and in the second they are not...are you are sure that the wires from the this one are actually in the connecter block and are making contact

 

[terryplumb]

Have you got any voltage testing implements?
You imply the switch/s were already wired up ( not by you)?
If so ,how were the cables that stick out the wall terminated ,as at least one of them would have been live when switch was turned to ON ?

 

[sparkymarka]

They can’t be the wires in the light switch you are showing …as they are blue/brown , the wires in the switch seem to be 3 core brown / black / grey sleeved Blue

 

[securespark]

You do need a two pole voltage tester to check at various points in the circuit what readings you have between neutral, line and earth conductors.

 

[FrodoOne]

There are clearly Brown and Blue insulated conductors (plus a pair of Earth wires - connected together and nothing else) connected to each of the two connecting devices - ladled as L an N (Line and Neutral) respectively.

When you use any appropriate "voltage testing implement", you should measure (about) 240 V across the two of them, when the switch controlling them is ON
If you cannot measure such a voltage when the switch which you "believe" is controlling them is ON, that is a problem.

As written by

They can’t be the wires in the light switch you are showing …as they are blue/brown , the wires in the switch seem to be 3 core brown / black / grey sleeved Blue

If you cannot solve this problem yourselves. I suggest that you need to employ a person who is a real "electrician".

 

[SUNRAY]

They can’t be the wires in the light switch you are showing …as they are blue/brown , the wires in the switch seem to be 3 core brown / black / grey sleeved Blue

I imagine these maybe on a 2way circuit and the other switch has the brown/blue we see at the lights.

in one picture the wires are fully inserted and in the second they are not...are you are sure that the wires from the this one are actually in the connecter block and are making contact

2 different fittings.


The fitting with too much copper showing needs to be corrected by trimming the excess to the correct length.

 

[EFLImpudence]

There is a Brown/Blue in the picture.

 

[SUNRAY]

There is a Brown/Blue in the picture.

View attachment 302585

Mmm yes and it looks like the feed to me.

I think the pink box is the switch we see in the picture, yellow stars being the neutral joints

So the confusing thing; are we seeing 2 or 3 light fittings? and how many are there in total? and do they all operate together?

 

[ericmark]

I know my son hated those jobs, where a year or so latter it needs completing, by which time he was no longer in the same position so to get the completion certificate was a problem, he had not expected his wife to run off, and to have to sell house, and go cards in when he started the job.

I really don't know what happened, I was not involved, but getting some one who is not a scheme member to complete work started by a scheme member seems problematic. He would not have been able to inspect and test with first fix, so will not have raised an installation certificate, or minor works, or a compliance certificate, and you would have needed to apply to the LABC to have done it DIY.

So can't see any way around the problem other than getting him back to complete it.

As to the fault, one needs some clues, personally I would get my meter out, and place near the wires, I know people frown on non contact voltage testing, but it is good for getting some pointers to start with. I know it will still show live with no neutral, but I go for the easy test first, if I have a live then next job is to use the leads, but without some thing to test with, it is going to be hard.

I have found some very simple faults, the terminal screw clamping on some insulation where not enough stripped, and the wire sitting near a terminal but not actually in it, a tug on each wire should find that, also a faulty bulb, since starting to use smart bulbs I often set them up in a portable lamp before fitting where required, and not too hard to set up a plug with a bit of cable to test the lamp.

I know what I can do safely, but not what you can do, the old test lamp was just a bulb in a holder, the only special bit was the GS38 bit about the length of probes tips, and bits to stop fingers sliding down the test prod, you could use a desk lamp in the same way, but I am uneasy to say do that, without knowing your skill, we all cut corners, only one job have I regularly used the proving unit to test my tester, we should always use them, on that one job it was instant dismissal to be caught without it, and the meter I have shown would not have been allowed to prove dead as it uses batteries and can be switched off, it needed to be battery less and non switched to prove dead. But in the main it does all I want, best £35 I have spent.

But the electrician will need to return to inspect and test, so why mess around, just let him do the job.

 

[martygturner]

I imagine these maybe on a 2way circuit and the other switch has the brown/blue we see at the lights.

2 different fittings.


The fitting with too much copper showing needs to be corrected by trimming the excess to the correct length.

the point i was making is if thats the first in a chain if its not in the connecter then neither light would work