working live

[securespark]

That's what I said to my bosses. But apparently, they are confident fault finding can be done in full on a dead circuit....

 

[Pensdown]

They came the other day to change bulbs in a few lights and swapped a few electronic fittings for ones with starter

Can you still use switched start in commercial premises? I though they had to be HF

 

[Spark123]

That's what I said to my bosses. But apparently, they are confident fault finding can be done in full on a dead circuit....

I think the environment has a lot to do with it, I personally don't see the point in working live unless there is good reason for example take an interlocking panel with 50+ interposing contactors/relays, turn the power off and they all drop out. You'd need to check each contactor/relay and all of their control circuits to find out which is causing the interlock to open which is a nightmare of a job, whereas with it live and taking the correct precautions it is pretty streight forward.

 

[Steve]

They came the other day to change bulbs in a few lights and swapped a few electronic fittings for ones with starter

Can you still use switched start in commercial premises? I though they had to be HF

A couple of the 2D round fittings were already switching ones. But they swapped a couple of HF 5 footers and replaced with switching.

 

[simon_d]

tend not to work live, but have done the odd light switch/socket live

HSE laws are stupid these days. workin a few month ago with some blokes who were workin on an overhead line, just touchin the phases, only insulated by the rubber tyres on the van, and a 400A fuse. and then HSE wants us to tun the power off to fault find!


apparantly standing on a piece of paper is now 'working at heights' aswell.

now, be honest, how many of you go get sme steps from your van if you can easily use your tool box or a chair thats near? and how many acutally bother puttin scaffold up to install a bellbox

 

[securespark]

Can you still use switched start in commercial premises? I though they had to be HF

HPF, maybe....

 

[JohnD]

That's what I said to my bosses. But apparently, they are confident fault finding can be done in full on a dead circuit....

I suspect they are also anxious that the widows don't claim compensation saying "but they allowed my husband to work on live circuits"

They need to demonstrate that they don't allow it.

 

[Spark123]

That's what I said to my bosses. But apparently, they are confident fault finding can be done in full on a dead circuit....

I suspect they are also anxious that the widows don't claim compensation saying "but they allowed my husband to work on live circuits"

They need to demonstrate that they don't allow it.

If they want the job done correctly, safely and within a timescale I cannot see a reason why a fully trained electrician with the correct safety precautions can't work live. How can any boss expect anyone to work to BS7671 (including doing the live checks) if you are not to work live? My point is certain things do require working live, however just because I can't be bothered to find the fuse is not an excuse i.e. the live working must be justified.

 

[JohnD]

The in-house mag often has pics of Distribution workers doing live repairs; they have special training, fibreglass ladders, hydraulic platforms, gauntlets, insulating aprons, visors etc to be allowed to do it. I doubt an employer would escape without blame if he allowed any oik with a screwdriver to do it and there was a fatal accident enquiry.

 

[securespark]

The only thing allowed live is testing, but not the likes of changing a switch, mentioned earlier.

 

[JohnD]

The only thing allowed live is testing, but not the likes of changing a switch, mentioned earlier.

that sounds very fair, testing live circuits, that's the point of those insulated test probes with the tiny exposed tips, isn't it?

 

[securespark]

Yeah, 'cept our test leads (Alphatek) have removeable shrouds that keep getting lost, and with them on, you have about 1mm of tip showing. We need spring-loaded leads Goddammit!!

 

[Pensdown]

If they want the job done correctly, safely and within a timescale I cannot see a reason why a fully trained electrician with the correct safety precautions can't work live. How can any boss expect anyone to work to BS7671 (including doing the live checks) if you are not to work live? My point is certain things do require working live, however just because I can't be bothered to find the fuse is not an excuse i.e. the live working must be justified.

We tried to impose a blanket ban on live working and it was a farce. We've now got 3 levels of live working, low medium and high risk and it's working well

Low risk tasks are where test equipment only comes into contact with live parts

Medium risk tasks are any task where hand tools come in contact with live parts, ie changing MCB's

High risk tasks are all the others, changing parts, live terminating or any task where the live conductor is exposed to touch or not in it's terminal

Edit. Sorry, I forgot to add the engineer can carry out low & medium tasks but must refer high risk tasks for approval

 

[Adam_151]

Thought I'd quote the relevant section of the EAW in here:

Work on or near live conductors
14. No person shall be engaged in any work activity on or so near any live conductor (other than one suitably covered with insulating material so as to prevent danger) that danger may arise unless-
(a) it is unreasonable in all the circumstances for it to be dead; and
(b) it is reasonable in all the circumstances for him to be at work on or near it while it is live; and
(c) suitable precautions (including where necessary the provision of suitable protective equipment) are taken to prevent injury.

Though I'm sure it sure it happens more often than strictly allowed, hand tools certified upto 1000v arn't exactly a rare item...

 

[simon_d]

remember someone telling me about a company who banned live testing all together as it was too dangerous. that included plugging in a earth loop tester. just as dangerous as plugging something in