World's largest shroud covers Britain's shame

[Roger928]

If only we had some kind of official body with the power for setting out rules for the construction of buildings. We could call them "The Construction Rules" or something similar. Why did nobody think of it before?

We already have that. Its called the building regulations.
But we should have something like a kind of official body with the power for setting out rules for foreign welfare slackers. We could call them "The welfare rules" or something similar.
Slackers and spongers need not apply!

 

[JohnD]

We already have that. Its called the building regulations.

Didn't do the job, did they.

Housing Ministers that couldn't be arsed to what they're paid for. Councillors who in 20 years never set foot in a tower block.

 

[transam]

71 murders (McDonald's take on it) to investigate ??

 

[^woody^]

Didn't do the job, did they

There you go again. Are you part of the investigation? If so why are you leaking your findings early?

 

[JohnD]

hey woody you're obviously right.

of course building regulations ought to permit high-rise buildings to be wrapped in flammable materials that melt and flame and engulf the building in fire within half an hour.

that's exactly what building regulations should do.

and of course the housing ministers shouldn't have read the reports on similar fires and taken action to prevent a recurrence.

The whole system worked perfectly.

Lucky I have you to explain it.

 

[^woody^]

hey woody you're obviously right.

of course building regulations ought to permit high-rise buildings to be wrapped in flammable materials that melt and flame and engulf the building in fire within half an hour.

that's exactly what building regulations should do.

and of course the housing ministers shouldn't have read the reports on similar fires and taken action to prevent a recurrence.

The whole system worked perfectly.

Lucky I have you to explain it.

You are very lucky to have me, and you are just demonstrating your ignorance.

Building regulations do permit building with flammable material. Most of it is called wood, other bits are called plastics, and other bits just break bend shatter or buckle.

The only fire resistant material was banned in 1999 in the UK.

 

[transam]

There is a development down this way .

Timber framed buildings and the out side wall's are polysterine blocks with a thin render coat on the out side of the polystrine blocks

there is a building company that specialises in building houses out of straw bails

 

[Notch7]

hey woody you're obviously right.

of course building regulations ought to permit high-rise buildings to be wrapped in flammable materials that melt and flame and engulf the building in fire within half an hour.

that's exactly what building regulations should do.

and of course the housing ministers shouldn't have read the reports on similar fires and taken action to prevent a recurrence.

The whole system worked perfectly.

Lucky I have you to explain it.

Yes, its disgusting that labour did nothing to deal with it despite a number of fires on their watch. Even more disgusting is the crass politicising by John McDonnell and JohnD.

 

[JohnD]

Yes, its disgusting that labour did nothing to deal with it despite a number of fires on their watch. Even more disgusting is the crass politicising by John McDonnell and JohnD.

It's typical of notch that he politicises the negligence and lack of care leading to this wholly avoidable tragedy, and tries to throw the blame onto one party while ignoring the one that has been in power for the last ten years. He's already tried to brush aside the shoddy regulation of fire prevention and protection.

Poor old notch ignores the waste of life and suffering and wants to blame Clement Attlee or some other long-gone leader. He hopes to score some worthless schoolboy points.

Can anyone see me mention a political party in this post? I certainly criticise the failure of the system.

Gosh, who could have foreseen such a thing?

"Similar fires
The following are similar fires that spread through exterior wall assemblies (cladding, insulation, wall) containing combustible components. Most of them involved high-rise buildings.

United Kingdom and Isle of Man

The 2005 Harrow Court fire in Stevenage caused three deaths.

• 1973 Summerland disaster – leisure centre fire in Douglas, Isle of Man, worsened by the ignition of flammable acrylic sheeting covering the building, led to at least 50 deaths.[367][368]
• 1991 Knowsley Heights fire – a fire in a tower block in Liverpool that had recently been fitted with rain screen cladding spread from the bottom to the top of the building via the 90 mm air gap behind the cladding.[369][370]
• 1999 Garnock Court fire – the fire in a tower block in Irvine, North Ayrshire, spread rapidly up combustible cladding,[167] resulting in one death and four injured.[371] The incident led to a parliamentary inquiry into the fire risk of external cladding and a change of the law in Scotland in 2005 requiring any cladding to inhibit the spread of fire.[372]
• 2005 Harrow Court fire – in a tower block in Stevenage, Hertfordshire, led to three deaths.[373]
• 2009 Lakanal House fire – in a tower block in Camberwell, South London, led to six deaths and at least twenty injured; an inquest "found the fire spread unexpectedly fast, both laterally and vertically, trapping people in their homes, with the exterior cladding panels burning through in just four and a half minutes."[374]
• 2016 Shepherd's Court fire – in a tower block in Shepherd's Bush, West London, a faulty tumble-dryer caught fire on the seventh floor, 19 August 2016. The fire spread up six floors on the outside of the building, which is owned by Hammersmith and Fulham Council. There were no fatalities but some suffered smoke inhalation. This led to the London Fire Brigade commissioning a report which showed external panels probably spread the fire. In May 2017, LFB warned all 33 London councils to review the use of panels and "take appropriate action to mitigate the fire risk."[375][376][377][378]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire#Similar_fires

If only we had some kind of official body with the power for setting out rules for the construction of buildings. We could call them "The Construction Rules" or something similar. Why did nobody think of it before?

 

[JohnD]

After the Grenfell fire (yes, that's after the worst of several) the BRE was at last commissioned to run fire tests on a rig simulating part of a multi-storey block.

This was the extra, 7th test, using a core filler of fire-retardent polyethylene.
(perhaps I should say "so-called")

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...test7_BS8414_Part_1_test_report_Issue_2.1.pdf

Read chart 5.2
on pages 10 and11

Ignition at 00min 00 secs

By 06:32 flaming debris was falling.
By 17:00 the next floor up was afire
At 28.14 the test was terminated

What a shame nobody thought of carrying out the tests before fixing this stuff to people's homes.

"This test result, however, raises major questions about why this combination of materials was actually signed off by building control officers.

The fire test conducted by the BRE is a standard test which is designed to establish whether a specific combination of materials, installed in a specified fashion, will be safe during a fire.

If developers wish to use combustible material on the exterior of tall buildings, it is supposed to be on the basis of data from such a test.

Newsnight has, however, previously revealed how developers have installed combustible elements on tall buildings without having tested the components.

They can commission engineers to write reports arguing that the material is functionally similar to material that has already been tested.

Or, in one case, Newsnight found building inspectors willing to sign off material of the same combustibility as at Grenfell without even that level of evidence.

The publication of this test makes it impossible for this design and combination of materials to be used in future without it passing a further test. "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40735851

What a shame the regulations were so lax. What a shame we didn't have housing ministers willing and able to do their job.

 

[Notch7]

After the Grenfell fire (yes, that's after the worst of several) the BRE was at last commissioned to run fire tests on a rig simulating part of a multi-storey block.

This was the extra, 7th test, using nominally fire-retardent foam.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...test7_BS8414_Part_1_test_report_Issue_2.1.pdf

Read chart 5.2
on pages 10 and11

Ignition at 00min 00 secs

By 06:32 flaming debris was falling.
By 17:00 the next floor up was afire
At 28.14 the test was terminated

What a shame nobody thought of carrying out the tests before fixing this stuff to people's homes.

"This test result, however, raises major questions about why this combination of materials was actually signed off by building control officers.

The fire test conducted by the BRE is a standard test which is designed to establish whether a specific combination of materials, installed in a specified fashion, will be safe during a fire.

If developers wish to use combustible material on the exterior of tall buildings, it is supposed to be on the basis of data from such a test.

Newsnight has, however, previously revealed how developers have installed combustible elements on tall buildings without having tested the components.

They can commission engineers to write reports arguing that the material is functionally similar to material that has already been tested.

Or, in one case, Newsnight found building inspectors willing to sign off material of the same combustibility as at Grenfell without even that level of evidence.

The publication of this test makes it impossible for this design and combination of materials to be used in future without it passing a further test. "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40735851

What a shame the regulations were so lax. What a shame we didn't have housing ministers willing and able to do their job.

Somebody needs to contact Sir Martin Moore-Bick quickly and tell him the enquiry is a waste of time, apparently JohnD has all the answers.

 

[JohnD]

silly old notch has no sensible response, so he continues to drool out drivel.

 

[Notch7]

's typical of notch that he politicises the negligence and lack of care leading to this wholly avoidable tragedy, and tries to throw the blame onto one party while ignoring the one that has been in power for the last ten years. He's already tried to brush aside the shoddy regulation of fire prevention and protection.

Poor old notch ignores the waste of life and suffering and wants to blame Clement Attlee or some other long-gone leader. He hopes to score some worthless schoolboy points.

Can anyone see me mention a political party in this post? I certainly criticise the failure of the system.[/QUOTE

 

[JohnD]

Former Minister for Communities Stephen Williams, said to the All-Party Parliamentary Fire Safety and Rescue Group:

"I have neither seen nor heard anything that would suggest that consideration of these specific potential changes is urgent and I am not willing to disrupt the work of this department by asking that these matters are brought forward."[54]

Well he has now.




54 = https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/17/tower-block-fire-warnings-grenfell-victims

 

[^woody^]

After the Grenfell fire (yes, that's after the worst of several) the BRE was at last commissioned to run fire tests on a rig simulating part of a multi-storey block.

This was the extra, 7th test, using a core filler of fire-retardent polyethylene.
(perhaps I should say "so-called")

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...test7_BS8414_Part_1_test_report_Issue_2.1.pdf

Read chart 5.2
on pages 10 and11

Ignition at 00min 00 secs

By 06:32 flaming debris was falling.
By 17:00 the next floor up was afire
At 28.14 the test was terminated

What a shame nobody thought of carrying out the tests before fixing this stuff to people's homes.

"This test result, however, raises major questions about why this combination of materials was actually signed off by building control officers.

The fire test conducted by the BRE is a standard test which is designed to establish whether a specific combination of materials, installed in a specified fashion, will be safe during a fire.

If developers wish to use combustible material on the exterior of tall buildings, it is supposed to be on the basis of data from such a test.

Newsnight has, however, previously revealed how developers have installed combustible elements on tall buildings without having tested the components.

They can commission engineers to write reports arguing that the material is functionally similar to material that has already been tested.

Or, in one case, Newsnight found building inspectors willing to sign off material of the same combustibility as at Grenfell without even that level of evidence.

The publication of this test makes it impossible for this design and combination of materials to be used in future without it passing a further test. "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40735851

What a shame the regulations were so lax. What a shame we didn't have housing ministers willing and able to do their job.

You're just googling for stuff and trying to make tenuous connections.

You're not on the investigation panel, you don't seem to have any expert knowledge in fire safety so basically you're just posting crap.