Am I the employer? Or the Customer? (Joe90)

[JohnD]

Nope

And what have torts to do with this?

I fancy you are in an argumentatative mood tonight.

 

[joe-90]

It's all to do with Contract Law.

 

[transam]

Whether I employ someone for an hour, a day or a year - in the eyes of the law I am, during that time, his employer. If I go into a shop I offer to enter a contract (law of torts) I do NOT employ the shop keeper. However, if I pay a gardener to cut my lawn or a cleaner to clean my floor or a gas fitter to service my boiler - then like it or not - I EMPLOY him.

No u do not , the term employ is used , but in the legal sense , it would not be an accurate description , in other countrys in Europe they may well have different rules , for example employment laws in Albania Or Germany are some what different !

 

[joe-90]

Never been to either but I'll take your word for it.

 

[Tibbot]

It's all to do with Contract Law.

Which has nothing to do with employer/employee status.

 

[joe-90]

It's all to do with Contract Law.

Which has nothing to do with employer/employee status.

I agree totally. JohnD said that a shopkeeper was an employee.

 

[JohnD]

I fear your Bluffers Guide to English Law is not up to scratch.

 

[Tibbot]

For the time I employ them I am. You are getting there.

Keep on kidding yourself, the world is full of big shots like you who think their everyday mundane transactions make them some sort of Ronnie & Reggie figure in the community.

 

[BingoBongo]

You are neither the employer or employee, you sir are a

Untitled

• BingoBongo
• 1 Nov 2009
• 2

 

[transam]

never been to Albania or Germany joe , well if u do they have different employment laws ! probably do all over Europe , I just took Albania & Germany as an example !

Any thing I can help u with can send me a pm joe

 

[onlyfitidealboilers]

Nope. In the eyes of the law the guy at the door is my employee. As my employee I must make sure that I observe a 'duty of care' towards him. If I don't - then as my employee he can sue me.

No, Joe, you are mistaken. He is a contractor, or the employee of a contractor.

If he was your employee you would, for example, be responsible for ensuring that his income tax and NI were paid, and you could be forced to pay them if they were not.

If he was your employee, you would be responsible for replacing him if he fell ill or went on holiday. As he is a contractor, he or his company is responsible for arranging cover..

If he was an employee, you could tell him how to do his job. As he is a contractor, he is responsible for knowing how to do it.

There are other differences.

So if I give him the 'wrong ladder' and he dies it's not my fault?

your the site fool. why do you pass on advice you have no idea about?

 

[Boilerman2]

Actually Joe 60 in the eyes of the law you do not have a duty of care to your employer....YOU HAVE A DUTY OF CARE TO EVERYONE!!
read the Health & Safety at work act!!! or are you one of those people who think is does not apply to them!!

 

[Gasop]

if I pay a gardener to cut my lawn or a cleaner to clean my floor or a gas fitter to service my boiler - then like it or not - I EMPLOY him.

So, as my employer why is your name and registration number not on my gassafe card instead of the firm that previously employed me before I stepped into your house to service your boiler?

 

[Donkmeister]

It's all to do with Contract Law.

Yes, contract law is exactly what it is... not employment law. One employs an employee, one engages a contractor (or "contracts" a contractor, if one must use the American parlance).

When you get a plumber round and say "Mr Plumber, your finest boiler if you please sir, installed forthwith on yonder kitchen wall!", assuming he wants the work he will most likely issue you with a quote. It is also possible that you may issue you with a price, but I'm sure I'd only be teaching Joe to suck eggs if I explained the difference in contract law terms...

If you then give him the go-ahead and he counters by accepting your go-ahead, at that moment you (the householder) have let a contract onto the contractor (the plumber, or his firm, or another firm that he may be the legal agent of).

At an agreed point he will invoice you for the labour and other costs (major equipment, sundries etc). This is perhaps a crucial illustration of why he is a contractor and NOT an employee. An employee does NOT invoice an employer for labour. Submitting a timesheet or clocking in and out does not constitute invoicing, btw.

1) You do not "employ" a contractor, however you may "engage" a contractor.
2) You have contracted for a specific task or tasks, bounded by a statement of work, whereas employment is an ongoing activity which is usually unbounded by the employment contract, and in practice is unbounded except by what would be lawful and considered reasonable by tribunal.

If you believe you are in fact employing the guy, perhaps you should consider the TUPE implications when you take on his employment. Once he has serviced your boiler, how do you intend to keep him in gainful employment? Servicing your car?

 

[transam]

Well donkmeister , that pretty much explains it ! thankyou !