Guttering dispute with next door neighbour

[Mikefromlondon]

You are definitely being taken for a ride by that insurance company, the whole idea of an Insurance company is to cover a manageable Risk, and charge a premium for undertaking that risk, they take that risk for a premium, in the hope that no claim will be made by the insured, but if a claim is made then they alone have to cough up that amount, Not You, you did not damage that gutter nor did you even touch it, so tell them to fob off. and see you in court!


So if you were a car driver, insured, and caused damage to property through losing control or through any reason, do you think your insurance company will come back to you and ask you to pay them for the damage you caused to the property? You already pay them a premium,

same way if a wall collapses on a parked car, you might be able to claim from your insurance but they are never going to get a penny from that house holder.

If they start seeking damages or claims or monies from people, then they can't proper insurance companies, but i would seek advice from CAB just to be on the safe side.

 

[Bilabong007]

In a totally unrelated situation to the one in which you find yourself, but maybe applicable here, I wrote a letter stating they were wasting my time and I charge for that.

I stated my case and costs for dealing with their continuing incompetence. They continued so I sent them an invoice. When they didn't pay it I sent them a letter threatening to take them to court for non payment.

They went away. I didn't chase payment.

Sometimes it's about posturing, maybe they think your a lay down. Take names, log calls and times. Tell them your doing this.

Good luck

Graeme

 

[chappers]

Hi Chappers

I would love to send you a copy of the surveyors report for you to look at and give me your thoughts. Not sure how i do that on here though ??
The insurance company did not replace his guttering with cast but plastic.
The surveyor works for the building company that carried out the work on next doors guttering.....
Ive checked on the Royal institute of charted surveyors website and he is not registered with them so just a guy the building company sent along i guess ...........

Yeah doesn't sound like a surveyor really, just like window companies call the guy who comes round to measure up, a surveyor.
As you say, there is always a risk going to court, but I can't see how they can possibly claim this from you, without some sort of investigation also I really can't believe that the insurers would just pay up and take on board these repairs without asking the neighbour to mitigate the claim, by for example authorising a repair to the allegedly damaged part. From their point of view replacing all the guttering is just not a financially viable way of resolving this.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

In another unrelated case but similar, I contacted my regular PCB supplier who fabricates my PCBs to my artwork files, I sent him files by email attachment, for him to quote for 10 sets of PCB (3 different types of boards per set) I also asked him if he could turn them around quickly as my customer needed my product quickly.

The company looked at my files, and sent me a quote, which was highly misleading, where they quoted me on the first of the three boards layout.

The quote stated "quantity required 10 pcs," followed by " batch total 10 pcs" and then the price quoted was as "Circuit Price" and a figure of "£45.00"

So at no place on the quote did they clearly state that the price was for 1 single board or price per board.

So I looked at their quote and I thought that their price was rather quite keen at £45.00 for 10 boards, mentally I worked out it would be £4.50 per board which is quite keen price but not too far out from my expectation of about £6.50 to maximum £8.50 per board so being at £45.00 is near impossible for it to be price for one board, and i took it that their quote was definitely for 10 boards, so I sent them an email accepting their quote and asked them to proceed with my job.

Next day they sent me two more quotes for the other 2 boards in a similar manner, and again the quotation for board no 2 and board No 3 were received and these again quoted mentioned "Total Quantity 10," and " batch size 10" and "Circuit Price £38.00" and no where on their quote did they mention clearly price per board or for price each, so i took it for guaranteed that the price was for 10 boards again.
So I accepted their price and gave them a go ahead.

Apart from these boards there was going to be tooling charge of £50 per layout, so for 3 different layouts it would be £150.00 and £30 for shipping. so total for tooling for 3 layouts was £150 plus £30 plus VAT

A week later my printed circuit boards arrived, followed a week later invoices came through the post, and I was flabbergasted when I saw the total amount came to £1,650.00

I nearly fell off my chair, I picked the phone up and rang the company to explain that they must have made an error, sure the prices quoted were for a batch of 10 boards not per board, they said ok not to worry they will look into this and come back to me.

Next day they sent an email, saying that there was no error and the price they quoted was for each board and not for 10 boards and the reason it was very high was because i wanted my boards urgent.

So i replied that if I truly knew that their quote was as high as that, I would simply not have asked them to go ahead, and I even told them that I had my own capability to manufacture my own board in house but i just did not have the time, but I would certainly manufactured my own boards rather than at their price.

So I wrote back, there is no way on this earth that i am prepared to be taken for a ride even if my job was urgent, so I told them that that unless they off me a substantial discount, otherwise I will let a Court decide if their charges are reasonable or just pure extortion.

In the mean time I sent my PCB files to another independent PCB Manufacturer, and asked them to quote me on the bases of urgent requirement, they quoted me for all 3 boards per set and total of 10 sets supplied in 3 days for £37 per set or £370.00 for all 10 sets and single tooling charge of £80.00 and a courier charge of £15.00. OR they also offered the same job turned around in 5 days For £32.00 per set or total for 10 sets £320.00 plus VAT and tooling and courier

And they quoted me prices for other quantities too such as for 25 sets at £22.00 per set.

A few days later I received a settlement offer of knocking only 15% of the total from their £1650.00 (inc VAT) and I refused and told them that it was still way too high and I made them an offer to settle it for £1000.00 and conclude our dispute.

I also offered to place an order for 25 more sets of boards (75 boards in total) if they accept my offer, and so i need them to quote me for this 25 sets of boards and this time making sure their quote clearly states the price is per board or per set, and not just "Circuit Price"

I also sent them the other company's quote but removed their name from the quote.

They replied that they can't better their offer of 15% reduction and also quoted me for 25 sets at £27.00 per set of 3 boards turned around in 10 days.

The other company quoted for 25 sets as £22.00 per set of 3 boards and £80 for tooling and £15 for shipping turned around in 5 days.

I gave this new company a go ahead, and received my 25 sets of boards within 5 days, and have not heard from the previous company and yesterday they
sent me an email making another offer, no better than 20%, and I have refused again, I am happy ( well not actually I am very bitter ) but to conclude this night mare as I made them an offer of £1000.00 for something that should have cost me no more than £300.00.

Welcome to Rip off Britain.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

OP, you have to be honest, did at any time your roofer touch his gutter, or disturbed it at all? or if he did then did he try to put it right?

 

[chappers]

I would say that's pretty irrelevant, there is no way he can have caused damage to the entire guttering nor £5000 worth to any single element.
No court in the land would allow a claim for betterment like this.
there is no way that the whole gutter would need to be replaced unless it was in such a poor state already.

 

[big-all]

I would say that's pretty irrelevant, there is no way he can have caused damage to the entire guttering nor £5000 worth to any single element.
No court in the land would allow a claim for betterment like this.
there is no way that the whole gutter would need to be replaced unless it was in such a poor state already.

yes fully agree there is a bad miscomunication somewhere there is nill chance the op is responssible for more than a small amount assuming the gutters are interlinked rather than stopends on the boundery
do the gutters connect to each other if so how was the joint constructed ??

 

[^woody^]

It is all posturing and bluff. This is what claim adjusters do.

From the description of events, there is no way any claim can succeed. More so, there are protocols to follow, and independent opinion required.

There will be significant costs for them to bring a claim, but it will be a small claims track claim because of the value, which means that costs are not recoverable. They will know this, hence the bluff to try and get you to pay up or contribute instead of it going to court.

But more so, they won't (or would be foolish to) pursue a claim of this nature without a chance of success - which they don't have.

What you should do, is not concentrate on refuting the claim (other than that one liner) but in your response, concentrate on their chances of success, the amount of time and money they will spend, the procedures they will need to follow, the independent expert verification that will be needed, and the unrecoverable costs they will incur.

Also mention your potential counterclaim relating to their client's lack of maintenance causing your replacement work in the first place.

The insurance company is not interested in the technical arguments at this stage. But they are interested in their costs and chances of success. Remind them.

You will be covered by any household policy you have yourself in any case. They will assume this and hope for at the least, an early agreed settlement from your insurers.

But if your insurers do become involved make sure that you firmly insist that they do not settle or make any payment at all. Insist that the claim is refuted and defended in it's entirety.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Or just ignore them. It's very difficult to argue with someone who doesn't repond at all.

 

[Mikefromlondon]

in another property damage incident, my tenants upstairs flat had some problem with bath tub outlet leakage, obviously how are my tenants going to know that there was a leak underneath the bath tub, but the tenants downstairs and a different landlord, did not knock or tell us about the problem but instead chose to place several containers in the room below to catch dripping water each day someone took bath or shower.

Later on it transpires that they were illegally occupying that flat downstairs and did not want to report it to either myself or their own landlord. Beacuse if they had told me I would have contacted the landlord for downstairs flat.

Eventually the landlord found out about illegal occupancy and got rid of the illegal tenants and contacted me about the damage and that I should let him or her have my insurance details, I said I would like to see the damage first, so I went and saw horrible damage that a prolonged water leak had been caused to the ceiling below, half of the ceiling was wet and containers placed at various places were half full of dirty water.

But then I said to the landlord that there was no way i am undertaking that repair work for her or on behalf of my insurance, as it is the fault of her tenants for not notifying me in good time before the problem became worst, and I pointed out that the damage sustained to that ceiling had been over many months.

So I walked away, and the landlord downstairs never bothered me again , he or she got builders and they came and most likely allowed it to dry and painted over it.

However, 2 years later that ceiling collapsed, and the new occupants were very lucky as they were asleep when it happened and it just missed the tenats face with large chunks of ceiling collapsing from one corner to almost quarter way on to the floor.

The landlord contacted me again, I visited again, both times I took pictures, and this time I put the blame on her cow boy builders who should have carried out proper repairs to that ceiling when it was soaking wet the last time instead of just letting it dry and painting over it.

Again I never heard from her, she got her insurance company to deal with it, and I did not hear from her insurance company trying to claim from me, I wouldn't have given them a penny.

But I got really scared when I realised how close that tenant came to almost being killed, a lesson has been learned that in future never underestimate a damage ceiling as it may be of more critical than even gas appliance servicing.

Now that since this leakage incident, i have installed water leakage sensors under the tub and wired it to a solenoid valve that shuts the whole water system in case of a leak detection, and alerting the occupants with a continuous sounding buzzer making safety of gas appliances look primitive - since when do you see a carbon monoxide alarm going off shutting off gas by itself? so that gas safety pandemonium is just rubbish and primitive. Do you not think if gas safety was so important that we would have gas leakage detectors fitted to every house flat building and that it would automatically shut gas off rather than someone having to smell and report a gas leak and then calling the Emergency crew and you are instructed to vacate half a city! (oh well half a street for a minor puncture in a gas mains) hilarious!

 

[station1212]

Cheers Graeme

I think that's a good starting point in dealing with them

But I feel if I try to communicate with them they will say " our solicitors are now dealing with this matter , communicate thro them "

 

[station1212]

Hi Mike
Because guttering on a semi detached obviously touchs at two points where the property joins and both properties had 80 year old cast guttering on them we had to angle grind the guttering to remove it.

Apart from that the only time we touched next doors guttering was to put one of the cast iron brackets from our property that we had removed and fitted it to support his cast iron guttering on the back of his property that was being held up by a rusty 6 inch nail that next door had banged into his wooden rafters end ...That was all the was supporting his gutter, along with the fact that his cast guttering was connected to our cast guttering that we were taking down. So my stepson knocked on next door to inform him that his guttering was being held up by a six inch nail and by being connected to our property and that before he removed our guttering at the back that he was going to take a cast iron bracket and fit it to support his guttering rather than leave it on his 6 inch nail.
The guy who came to look at the job of relacing next doors guttering ( the surveyor/ General dogsbody ) claimed we had pulled next doors guttering down to accomadate our new guttering but we have pictures from Google earth from 2009 showing next doors knackered guttering in that position from over 6 years ago..I didnt even own the house until 2013 !!!!!!
The guy who came to look at the job didnt seem to notice that next doors guttering had been supported by a six inch rusting nail and that the cast guttering was quite frankly like the ocean waves but somehow he was able to ascertain that my stepson had been able to move the guttering 1/2 an inch to (in his words accomodate our new guttering) !!!!!!
My pictures of next doors guttering quite clearly show that it is so badly supported ( missing brackets) that it runs out by approx 2 to 3 inchs in parts yet the (surveyor / who never mentioned this ) was happy to conclude that some 5 months after my stepson had done the work he claimed we had moved Next doors guttering 1/2 an inch where the two properties join !!!!!

 

[Mikefromlondon]

I have got a feeling you neighbour is devious and cunning bloke who thought of taking advantage of a false insurance claim under his insurance policy, so he probably told pack of lies to his insurers, that you moved his entire gutter down by half an inch or so and is therefore put a false claim through, i think a prison term would do him good for fraudulent claim.

 

[big-all]

another thought

did you notice what scaffolding company was used ??
if so ask how much scaffold would cost and minimum hire time would be

 

[station1212]

You know Mike he has lied many times thro this process upto now and i have the evidence to show he is lying but im keeping those bullets in my gun till i need them....Once this is all over and we have won ( i cant see how we can lose unless we turn up in court not well prepared) i am going to see what recourse i have against him for causing me all this hassle and stress