Panorama BBC1 10July: Is Labour anti-semitic?

[ban-all-sheds]

Gosh, you must be extreme hard right to think that

Almost correct.

Try "Gosh, you must be extremely hard of thinking "

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Recent polls conducted for Hope Not Hate by YouGov – which has a solid record when looking at party members – is horrifying. It found that 60% of Tory members believe Islam “is generally a threat to western civilisation”, with less than one in five dissenting; that 54% hold it to be “generally a threat to the British way of life”; and 43% do not want a Muslim as prime minister. Two-thirds believe the lie that parts of Britain are under sharia law; another 45% believe in the racist nonsense that there are no-go areas for non-Muslims; and 40% want to limit Britain’s Muslim population. Among the most chilling findings was that 42% believe “having people from a wide variety of racial and cultural backgrounds” has damaged British society, with just 39% dissenting.

Digest that carefully: more Tory members than not believe that the very presence of minorities has damaged our society. These are far-right beliefs and yet they are mainstream in the party of government.

This should be a national scandal, and yet it is not. It is not splashed on all the front pages; it is not topping news bulletins; it is not the relentless topic of TV pundit debates; it is not leading to disgusted resignations from the Tory party; it is not provoking frenzied warnings that the Tory party is not fit for power.

Let me conduct a thought experiment: imagine a poll that found that 60% of Labour members agreed that Judaism is “generally a threat to western civilisation”, or that 43% did not want a Jewish prime minister, or 40% wanted to limit the number of Jews entering Britain. Such findings would quite rightly cause an explosion of outrage, as well as passionate warnings, including from me, that Labour must be kept from winning office.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/10/islamophobia-tory-party-britain

 

[Notch7]

I see BAS is intent on whataboutery, what he is saying is 'there is no need to deal with anti semitism in the Labour party because there is Islamophobia in the Tory party'.

If he cared about racism, he would be condemning both equally, jnstead of political point scoring.

Oh and while we are making comparisons, lets compare Tory members with Labour leaders office, MPs, councillors.

There is no equivalence between Corbyn saying a blatant anti semitic mural should be kept and some Tory members answering a poll.

 

[festive]

I see BAS is intent on whataboutery, what he is saying is 'there is no need to deal with anti semitism in the Labour party because there is Islamophobia in the Tory party'.

If he cared about racism, he would be condemning both equally, jnstead of political point scoring.

Oh and while we are making comparisons, lets compare Tory members with Labour leaders office, MPs, councillors.

There is no equivalence between Corbyn saying a blatant anti semitic mural should be kept and some Tory members answering a poll.

Respect Notch there are a number of hypocrites on here with the same reasoning. Absolutely refuse to look In their own (supported) back yard. Stones and greenhouses comes to mind.
Whilst I don't know much about the Labour anti semite stuff and despise labour I just feel it's a stick to beat them whilst we have the islamophobic stuff on the other side. A stick each basically to bash each other with. So proud the are collectively wanting to run our country.

 

[fillyboy]

Recent polls conducted for Hope Not Hate by YouGov – which has a solid record when looking at party members blah blah blah

Purely in the interest of balance, that's a very long article, with some interesting answers, but it doesn't actually state what the question was, I'd certainly want to know what the question was before condemning the answers.
A quick google of 'hope not hate' shows it was set up by the editor of an 'antifascist' magazine and funded by trade unions, no axe to grind with the conservatives then.

Conversely, the most damming complaints about anti Semitism in the labour party are coming from within the labour party itself, not 'rank and file' whatever that implies.

My verdict on that article: until I see the full YouGov survey including the questions asked, fake news.

 

[Vinty]

He said something like ... Hitler supported the idea of Jews being moved to Israel, but then he went made and decided to kill them all instead.

The suggestion that for a while Hitler support a Jewish policy was deemed antisemitic, and he was accused of being a Holocaust denier, even though in the same sentence he described Hitler as mad and killing Jews.

It is easy to see how both sides of the argument can, and have, been made against him.

Only he knows what he really thinks. The role of a politician is to be diplomatic and balanced.

In the case of Livingstone it was mostly down to the interpretation of the word support, when Livingstone used the word in reference to Hitlers agreement with Zionism i presume he meant that Hitler supported the emigration of German Jews to Palestine in order to rid Germany of jews and not as Livingstones detractors claim that Livingstone was implying that Hitler liked Jews and wanted to help them.

 

[Vinty]

Watched Newsnight tonight, when the discussion moved to the Subject of Corbyn the BBC in the interests of impartiality seen fit to show an image of Corbyn with a red background just to let the viewer know that he is a dangerous Marxist subversive.
Kirsty Wark had invited an anti Corbynite on to discuss anti semitism and just to make sure that the discusion was fair and balanced she invited another anti Corbynite.
The discussion was about the row between Corbyn and deputy Leader Tom Watson.
Its seems the anti Corbynites believe that Watson should replace Corbyn,he ticks all the boxes when it comes to a Labour leader acceptable to the vested interests who want Corbyn replaced, he is member of the friends of Israel and he supported the Iraq war.

 

[Bodd]

When Ed Miliband was labour leader, for 5 years, nobody claimed labour was anti-semetic. And Ed would have spotted problems, being at the top.
Mind you, some people are accusing him of turning a blind eye now.

Isn't Ed and David Jewish themselves?

 

[Bodd]

Basically if you are Jewish, don’t vote labour and if you are Muslim don’t vote conservative

If your a wet tea cloth vote Liberal

 

[Bodd]

Kirsty Wark had invited an anti Corbynite on to discuss anti semitism and just to make sure that the discusion was fair and balanced she invited another anti Corbynite.

 

[Notch7]

onversely, the most damming complaints about anti Semitism in the labour party are coming from within the labour party itself, not 'rank and file' whatever that implies

Well it puts to rest the argument that anti semitism is being used by the Tory party as a weapon to weakon Corbyn.

There are are certain people on here who bring up that argument everytime antisemitism is mentioned. Usually it goes 'ooh there must be a GE looming the Tories are panicing'

 

[JP_]

Isn't Ed and David Jewish themselves?

Exactly my point. Labour had a Jewish leader, and a Jewish foreign secretary. I think Ed refers to himself as Atheist Jew - embraces the culture but doesn't believe in the magic man in the sky.
Both children of Polish Jewish immigrants. It really is hard to believe that so much has changed in just a few years. What seems to have changed is the political environment.

I think this is a good account of the problem at the moment - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ism-responsibility-of-all-says-david-miliband

The thing is, because AS is essentially a thought crime, rather than a physical crime, it is very hard to defend it. If one party says "you are all racists" other than shouting back, "no we aren't, anyway you lot are homophobes" there is not much you can do, other than say "we will suspend anybody who is acting or saying anything AS and investigate it, and stamp it out" - which is what labour have said. The Tories on the other hand, seem to not have to take such a stance against its members. Seems a bit unbalanced.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I see BAS is intent on whataboutery,

You really are shockingly bad at this, aren't you.

And BTW - use of the term "whataboutery" is, 99.999999999999999999999999% of the time, an attempt by the person using it to deflect examination of his own hypocrisy or bias.

what he is saying is 'there is no need to deal with anti semitism in the Labour party because there is Islamophobia in the Tory party'.

And there you go again.

Once again your staggering incompetence at this has led you to write utter nonsense.

Only someone utterly devoid of any critical thinking skills would try to claim that pointing out a problem in Area B was in fact making a claim that there was no need to do anything about the probem in Area A.

If he cared about racism, he would be condemning both equally

I do.

Here's a challenge for you - go away and find proof that I don't, and do not return here until you have it.

jnstead of political point scoring.

And your persistent criticisms of the Labour Party which are not grounded in any reality are what, exactly?

Please do not make the mistake of thinking that everybody here is so stupid that they will believe the stupid things you write.

Some of us are better than you.

Oh and while we are making comparisons, lets compare Tory members with Labour leaders office, MPs, councillors.

How about comparing Conservative MPs and councillors?

https://www.businessinsider.com/isl...top-baroness-warsi-interview-2018-6?r=US&IR=T

There is no equivalence between Corbyn saying a blatant anti semitic mural should be kept and some Tory members answering a poll.

How about a Tory PM who has said that Muslim women look like “bank robbers” and “letterboxes”, and has described black people as “piccanninies” with “watermelon smiles”?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Purely in the interest of balance, that's a very long article,

A very long article?

A little over 1000 words.

Just WT* is wrong with you that you think that is very long?

Just how limited is your ability to pay attention to anything?

You're another one who is so bad at this that you have no right to be here.

My verdict on that article: until I see the full YouGov survey including the questions asked, fake news.

Well go and look then.

Unles of course you'd rather ignore truth and facts and continue to dismiss everything you don't like as "fake news".

 

[JP_]

until I see the full YouGov survey

Full, but fewer than 1000 words?