Scudo Van - Reverse & First Gears Difficult After New Clutch

ReganAndCarter

ReganAndCarter

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Just had complete new clutch and DMF change on my 2004 Scudo 2.0 jtd van (HDi engine) with 100K miles. The gears were fine when it went in. When I collected it, the garage said the gear change wasn't great and diagnosed wear in the gear cable ends at box and lever. The new clutch seems to operate well and engages/disengages drive properly.

Having driven it, 3rd, 4th and 5th are fine. 2nd is a little notchy but first and reverse are sometimes difficult to get the lever to push forward to select them. Reverse is the worst and can take sometimes 7 or 8 attempts to get the lever to push forward to engage the gear.

I'm prepared to accept that the cables and their ends (original) have wear in them bearing in mind the age and mileage. But why have they suddenly started to do this after the clutch change? Could there be another cause?

Would appreciate any advice from the experts.
 
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If the gear selection was fine before the new clutch, I can see no reason why things should be different now.
Initially I would suggest clutch adjustment - (if applicable) the pedal should start to disengage the clutch almost immediately, and certainly not half way down the travel for example.
If it's a hydraulic clutch, it needs to be thoroughly bled before going any further. If mechanical, then there should be some sort of adjustment too.
Obviously the gear selection is by cables, and their setting is critical. I haven't replaced the cables on these, but have renewed the gear lever on the dash due to worn nylon ball joints......I don't know if the cables have to be undone or just unclipped to allow the gearbox out.
John :)
 
With engine running, foot on clutch, try to engage first gear. If it doesn’t go in, keep the clutch pedal down, keep the pressure on gear lever and switch engine off. If it pops into gear the minute the engine stops, it’s the clutch. Either air in the hydraulics or adjustment (or faulty clutch). If hydraulic, try pumping the pedal madly half a dozen times and when you have pressure, wedge the pedal down with a stick for an hour or so (preferably overnight). Air will percolate up to the reservoir.
 
Burnerman said:
If the gear selection was fine before the new clutch, I can see no reason why things should be different now.
Initially I would suggest clutch adjustment - (if applicable) the pedal should start to disengage the clutch almost immediately, and certainly not half way down the travel for example.
If it's a hydraulic clutch, it needs to be thoroughly bled before going any further. If mechanical, then there should be some sort of adjustment too.
Obviously the gear selection is by cables, and their setting is critical. I haven't replaced the cables on these, but have renewed the gear lever on the dash due to worn nylon ball joints......I don't know if the cables have to be undone or just unclipped to allow the gearbox out.
John :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply, John. Yes, I was thinking why would gear cable wear show up now, immediately after a new clutch.

Don't think there will be any adjustment as it's hydraulic - will check to see how soon clutch disengages. So bleeding would be the next step. They did say they's bled it, but I'm not sure how air would get in during clutch replacement. As I believe the slave cylinder is on the outside of the bell housing, I'm assuming they would just remove the slave cylinder and tie it up out the way. Or are they likely to disconnect it from the pipe?

What I don't understand is if it's the gear cables, why does the gear sometimes go straight in, but more often than not, it won't because it feel like something is blocking it.

Yes, ends of cables need to be removed from top of box before removing box. Each end of the cable is a plastic eye that snaps onto a metal ball on the selector on top of gearbox. To remove, just put a large bladed screwdriver and pop the eye off the ball.
 
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Mottie said:
With engine running, foot on clutch, try to engage first gear. If it doesn’t go in, keep the clutch pedal down, keep the pressure on gear lever and switch engine off. If it pops into gear the minute the engine stops, it’s the clutch. Either air in the hydraulics or adjustment (or faulty clutch). If hydraulic, try pumping the pedal madly half a dozen times and when you have pressure, wedge the pedal down with a stick for an hour or so (preferably overnight). Air will percolate up to the reservoir.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Mottie. Will definitely try that test tomorrow.

The slave cylinder is on the outside of bell housing. Was wondering how air would have got in. If they took slave out and tied it up out the way still attached to pipe I'm assuming no air would have got in. Obviously if they left the slave in place and removed pipe from it, then I can see why air is in there. Not sure which method they would use on this vehicle.

Really feel like something is obstructing the lever from going full home, It's almost there, but won't go the last few inches. Does it most times. Couple of times have had to pull away in 2nd as couldn't get 1st. Reverse is worst. 7 or 8 attempts sometimes. May have to resort to the stick.

Out of interest, is there a reason why reverse and 1st are worst affected?
 
Last edited:
Mottie said:
Because you need the clutch to engage those gears from a standstill. The other gears you can easily select without using the clutch when the car is moving when the engine speed matches the car speed.
Click to expand...

Couldn't wait until tomorrow, just been out and tried your test + another.

Tried your test on both reverse and 1st. With engine running, stick wouldn't go fully forward to engage the gear. Kept forward pressure on stick, and as soon as engine turned off it slipped easily into gear with hardly any effort.

Other test I did was to see how easily gears engage with engine off and they all engage without any problems.
 
Even if they didn't have to remove the slave cylinder to do the job, they might have bled it because they knew that it wasn't going into gear easily and were trying to improve it.
 
Mottie said:
Sounds like the clutch dragging then. Try jamming the pedal down overnight.
Click to expand...

Rang the garage this morning and explained situation. They said they were aware that something wasn't right, but didn't realise how bad first and reverse are to select.

As soon as I described what the problem is, he said it's probably an air pocket in slave, etc. Wants it in on Monday to examine and give the hydraulics a good bleed. Will let him have an attempt to rectify first so he can see there's a problem, just in case there's another cause. If they can't fix it, I'll have a go with jamming the pedal down over night to shift the air.
 
I had the same problem with my transit when ford's fitted a new clutch, before I could book it in with them again, it went away and was working correctly. A few days had pasted.

Andy
 
HERTS P&D said:
I had the same problem with my transit when ford's fitted a new clutch, before I could book it in with them again, it went away and was working correctly. A few days had pasted.

Andy
Click to expand...

Thanks Andy. Suppose if it was hydraulic any air in the system may have shifted or dispersed. Or maybe it needed bedding in (oh jeez, what have I said? :ROFLMAO: ).

Hope my problem is as easy to sort out.
 
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