Scudo Van - Reverse & First Gears Difficult After New Clutch

[ReganAndCarter]

Your selection technique works well -- although you shouldn't have to do it, obviously. What's happening is that you are causing the synchromesh within the gearbox to stop the input shaft rotating and that allows the gears to slip in.
However, the problem is in the clutch somewhere....either it's not releasing as fully as it's supposed to or the friction plate is grabbing on to the input shaft spines due to dirt, burring or other slight damage.....and that, gets us no further forward unfortunately
John

Thanks again, John.

Just noticed another potential problem. Found a small oil stain on drive which is directly under the gearbox. Had a sniff of the oil on drive and it smells like gearbox oil. I've dropped the van into another garage today for them to have a test drive and assess. Asked them to have a look for leaks too.

When the clutch was replaced they did the clutch guide tube as well. So maybe it's coming from new guide tube or could just be drain plug. Don't know if this is linked to my problem with gears. One thing after another!

 

[Burnerman]

The guide tube just allows the release bearing to slide nicely so that should be fine....I'd suspect oil leaks from the drive shaft oil seals in this case, but all should be obvious when the van is on the ramp.
John

 

[sxturbo]

not read the whole thread, but the clutch fork on these has a nylon bush which wears, this usually causes the need for clutch replacements, however when the clutch is changed mechanics rarely inspect the fork and re-fit with the failed nylon bush. Usually if the bush has failed you will also need the ball it fits on also otherwise the fork wont last 5 mins.

looks a bit like this

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Thanks sxturbo. Had a quick look and that fork appears to be for later/newer shape Scudos. Mine's a 2004. Only thing I can find similar for earlier versions is this -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-SCU...281811?hash=item281bdedb53:g:LmYAAOxyAZ9STRPO

Would you normally fit one of these as a matter of course when changing clutch? It was changed at 100,000 miles and old clutch was original.

 

[sxturbo]

Thanks sxturbo. Had a quick look and that fork appears to be for later/newer shape Scudos. Mine's a 2004. Only thing I can find similar for earlier versions is this -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-SCU...281811?hash=item281bdedb53:g:LmYAAOxyAZ9STRPO

Would you normally fit one of these as a matter of course when changing clutch? It was changed at 100,000 miles and old clutch was original.

dont trust ebay listings.

need to get the OE number really for your van, that vintage 2.0 HDI should have the type of fork i've posted, but there appears to be a couple in that year range and i dont have the details or software to look it up.

on these it is something that should be checked when replacing the clutch, and it will cause the issues you are having.

 

[Keithmac]

If they've hung the weight of the gearbox on the clutch disk when refitting the gearbox that can cause issues (bends the friction plate causing the clutch to drag).

I've always used an engine hoist or platform jacks to avoid this.

They will have dropped the old gearbox oil out presumably, maybe the new oil doesn't like your synchros?.

I have seen a few hydraulic clutch cars that still have adjustment at the pedal and some in the clutch master cylinder (threaded rod). Maybe worth a google?.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

UPDATE

Continuing saga. Second garage I took van to said clutch problem is cables because they can see movement where the cable ends/eyes fit onto gearbox. Still don't understand how cables weren't worn and not causing gear selection problems before clutch change, but were immediately after - but there we are.

The leak turns out to be driveshaft seal on gearbox. Wondering if this got damaged when clutch changed - suppose these things happen.

Biggest shock was their quote to fit new cables and replace driveshaft seal - £632! I think the cables from Fiat are approx £250 inc the Vodka And Tonic. Can't justify that kind of expenditure, so obviously have to get the seal done quickly. The cables I'm going to attempt DIY. Can get genuine OE Fiat cables for £67.

Next question is has anyone fitted cables to the early Scudo Expert Dispatch range? Any tips. Seems reasonably straightforward. Remove central dash fascia around and below gearstick. Jack front of van. Unclip both ends of cables and remove from bracing bracket just rear of gearbox - refit is same in reverse.

Questions - there seem to be some brackets holding the cables between gearbox and bulkhead. Presume there are a couple of clips on brackets holding cables to brackets? Also, is there a best gear to but the gearstick into while changing cables, or just leave in neutral?

My reasoning is if I change cables because garage who did clutch say that's the problem, and the problem is still there - then they can have van back to remedy clutch.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

If they've hung the weight of the gearbox on the clutch disk when refitting the gearbox that can cause issues (bends the friction plate causing the clutch to drag).

I've always used an engine hoist or platform jacks to avoid this.

Yes, I do worry that something like this may have happened.

 

[Keithmac]

If you can go through all gears with engine off it's unlikely to be anything to do with the cables.

Plus it was fine before the clutch as people have said.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

If you can go through all gears with engine off it's unlikely to be anything to do with the cables.

Plus it was fine before the clutch as people have said.

Yes, I don't believe it's the cables either - even though two garages say it is. I'm prepared to believe that there is wear in the ends after 100,000 of mostly town miles, but it's not bad enough to cause selection problems. Will risk a new set of cables, and if as I suspect there's no improvement, I can call the original garage's bluff.

I was dreading having clutch done when it started slipping. It's a long, difficult, expensive job and if it there's a problem it all has to be done again. Seems like I was right to be aprehensive.

 

[sxturbo]

it's definitely not cables if the clutch is dragging.

if you lived closer i'd remove the box for you and check it out. it's a big job but not a difficult one.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

I had the same problem with my transit when ford's fitted a new clutch, before I could book it in with them again, it went away and was working correctly. A few days had pasted.

Andy

UPDATE>>> Well, 6 months after I started posting about my problems after the clutch was replaced on my Scudo van (difficulty selecting reverse and 1st plus 2nd a bit notchy) - it looks like Andy was on the money. It has very slowly started to get better over the months and I would say it's almost 90% there now. Much easier to drive and I reckon very soon it will have righted itself completely.

Who knows what caused it, maybe new parts (had entire clutch + DMF renewed) bedding or running in. Maybe Mottie was right too and it was air in the fluid. I tried jamming the pedal down twice, left it once for 4 days, but made no difference. Poss that didn't shift any air and it just needed time and use for the air to escape. Who knows? A second recommended garage I took it to to have a look said it was the gear cables. I was unconvinced but bought some new, genuine Fiat cables and fitted them myself. Made no difference of course.

Anyway, I'm really happy now and the van is now a pleasure to drive just like it was before. Thanks to all for your help and advice.

 

[johnny2007]

FIAT... pleasure to drive...

What gear are you on???

 

[ReganAndCarter]

FIAT... pleasure to drive...

What gear are you on???

OK, perhaps pleasure was too strong. But for a commercial vehicle of that vintage it goes and stops very well. Had it 14 years, so I suppose I just got comfortable with it. It's the first vehicle I've owned that's never broken down or failed an MOT. But it doesn't get thrashed like many vans.

 

[Mottie]

OK, perhaps pleasure was too strong. But for a commercial vehicle of that vintage it goes and stops very well. Had it 14 years, so I suppose I just got comfortable with it. It's the first vehicle I've owned that's never broken down or failed an MOT. But it doesn't get thrashed like many vans.

Thought you’d be tootling around in a MK1 V6 Tranny.