Diesels
- Thread starter JP_
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But then again, an HGV won’t have to look nice and be able to carry 5 people and their luggage.....
Another question is - are other countries committing themselves to abolishing petrol and diesel vehicles from the roads, or are we the only country martyring ourselves while others carry on regardless?
In passenger cars they will likely go out together.
Bosch has got some new technologies for diesels which still look promising,
Diesels In lorries will be around for a fair bit longer, the technology for battery hgvs and the infrastructure just isn't there at the moment.
There's still time for the government to do a u turn on the bans.
Servicing costs and general ownership costs of EVs need to be greatly reduced also.
The 2nd hand market for EVs will be almost non existent, because the batteries not surviving much past the warranty is a major concern and has been proven on various ev's released by a number of manufactures.
I believe that at some point there will be a transport poverty crisis,
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Of course there’ll carry on regardless, you seriously don’t think China and India give a sh#t about pollution do you!? Even America! We are just pi##ing in the wind if we think we’re going to save the world.....
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unless there is a lot more green electricity and lithium mining cleans up its act, and batteries last longer, then I cannot see the world turning to electric in a hurry.
Electric vehicles make sense in places like Switzerland where they generate vast amounts of hydroelectric, but in countries that burn fossil fuels for electricity, it is probably better to focus greener petrol engines.
Electric vehicles make sense in places like Switzerland where they generate vast amounts of hydroelectric, but in countries that burn fossil fuels for electricity, it is probably better to focus greener petrol engines.
not if "cleaner" includes particulates that make their way into your lungs
and stay there.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/16/uk/air-pollution-death-ella-kissi-debrah-uk-gbr-intl/index.html
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4902
and stay there.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/16/uk/air-pollution-death-ella-kissi-debrah-uk-gbr-intl/index.html
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4902
I wonder when someone will mention the particulates that come from brake and clutch linings and tyres?
John
John
Do they? The normal line is that servicing costs are less for EVs, as well as cheaper fuel costs.
Really? I believe it's a concern (people worry over silly things all the time) but the only brand I've heard of that has significant battery issues was the Nissan leaf because it has naff cooling. Even there the batteries are expected to last 10 years before being refurbed for other uses.
"Hydrogen-powered heavy trucks capable of driving long distances are likely to reach a tipping point towards the end of the decade, according to the heads of the world’s two biggest truckmakers.
Martin Daum, chair of industry leader Daimler Truck, told the Financial Times that while diesel trucks would dominate sales for the next three to four years, hydrogen would take off as fuel between 2027 and 2030 before going “steeply up”.
Martin Lundstedt, chief executive of Volvo Group, which has just bought into a hydrogen joint venture with Daimler, said that after fuel-cell production started in 2025 there would be a “much steeper ramp-up” towards the end of the decade."
ft.com
Martin Daum, chair of industry leader Daimler Truck, told the Financial Times that while diesel trucks would dominate sales for the next three to four years, hydrogen would take off as fuel between 2027 and 2030 before going “steeply up”.
Martin Lundstedt, chief executive of Volvo Group, which has just bought into a hydrogen joint venture with Daimler, said that after fuel-cell production started in 2025 there would be a “much steeper ramp-up” towards the end of the decade."
ft.com
I'm not convinced by Hydrogen as a fuel, it will work technically, no question, but economically?
A HGV will need a huge battery, somewhere in the region of 500kWh or 1MWh. At £100 a kWh (rough current costs) that means the battery would cost between 50 and a hundred grand. Assuming the cost for Hydrogen stays the same (roughly £12 a kilo) then it costs roughly three times as much per mile compared to charging a battery. Those fuel costs will mount up very quickly.
Both have challenges for charging/fueling but BEHGVs seem more realistic at the moment. The main thing that's stopping them is that you can make more profit selling those 500kWh of battery in 10 cars than on a single HGV.
A HGV will need a huge battery, somewhere in the region of 500kWh or 1MWh. At £100 a kWh (rough current costs) that means the battery would cost between 50 and a hundred grand. Assuming the cost for Hydrogen stays the same (roughly £12 a kilo) then it costs roughly three times as much per mile compared to charging a battery. Those fuel costs will mount up very quickly.
Both have challenges for charging/fueling but BEHGVs seem more realistic at the moment. The main thing that's stopping them is that you can make more profit selling those 500kWh of battery in 10 cars than on a single HGV.
E
EddieM
But at $0.76 per kilo projected by 2050 for green hydrogen it's a much more attractive proposition.
Apart from the undeniable issues around storage and transportation what other issues are there with hydrogen as a fuel?
General running costs are low, but as soon as things start to go wrong it will get very expensive.
Electric cars are currently very expensive to purchase.
at the moment there are very few garages that can repair electric vehicles, and so people will be forced to go to the main dealer, whom charge extortionate ammount of labour, along the lines of £80 per hour in some places.
Most electric cars are still quite new, we've had hybrids for years but not in any great capacity, and when the electrics or battery's pack up people just used them like an ordinary car. But hybrids are also being banned.
We don't yet know the true cost of owning electric vehicles in terms of repairs with most fully electric cars being of higher class brands (Tesla, jaguar etc) and aim at different price points, and so use better quality materials.
We are yet to see long term effects of fully electric cars on the budget side of things.
Batteries and electric motors will be horrendously expensive, and electrical faults will be difficult to source, along with the increase costs to purchase the vehicles, I cannot see it being viable to physically owning a used electric vehicle.
I believe the way it will go in the future is that cars will be only available on lease.
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