Covid passes to be introduced.

[Justin Passing]

Vaccines and vaccine passports improve the odds towards people being healthy.
Neither is perfect but that doesn't mean they're no good.
Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot, so there.

 

[Notch7]

Far too much reliance put in the jabbed helping to contain the spread. Brother's best friend died of Covid end of Sept. Caught it from missus, who caught it from her boss. All fully jabbed. Other two quickly recovered.

Im sorry to hear that, your mates missus has had a terrible shock.

whatever ones beliefs on Covid, there’s no doubt it causes so many terrible tragedies.

It annoys me when people say “oh it’s just a mild illness for most people” or “oh look the excess death figures are no different” …..what a crock of sh1t, it’s a very nasty virus.

 

[Notch7]

Vaccines and vaccine passports improve the odds towards people being healthy.
Neither is perfect but that doesn't mean they're no good.
Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot, so there.

It’s the only argument they have..the idiots, that is.

 

[^woody^]

Far too much reliance put in the jabbed helping to contain the spread.

I suspect that is the problem. The message seems to be one of coercing people to be vaccinated (by controlling access to places people want to go to), and the outcome will be less deaths and severe illness and strain on the NHS. I get that.

But, many people who are vaccinated become complacent and think that they are now protected and they are protecting others from spreading the disease. And that's not the case at all.

The facts are, the virus does not know or care who's vaccinated and who's not. And if you get close to anyone else, there is a risk of catching the virus. And that's a simple fact, but not one which people seem to have registered.

It annoys me when I see the idiot questions of "can I meet my family, can I attend a party, can I go on holiday? ". Of course you can, and of course you can take on that risk of contracting or spreading the disease. You should not need a government to tell you something that's just plain common sense.

This virus is not going away anytime soon. We have to live with it. And before the anti vaxxer's all shout "yes that's right, just like we live with the common cold, open everything up stop restricting our lives", no that's not right.

We can only live with covid if the majority of the population are vaccinated and do not have to attend hospital and overload the NHS if we get sick. And that may well include 6 monthly boosters.

Unfortunately, it's pot luck if we get it bad, or die even if vaccinated. But at least the vaccines decrease the risk, not just of covid illness, but the risk of say a cancer patient not getting treatment because a really sick unvaccinated people is taking up beds and resources.

I appreciate its difficult for any government to come up with a strategy. But I feel it's all down to the message.
Remember Boris's speech early on at the start, along the lines of 'many people will die and loved ones go before their time'? He got criticised for that, and yet it was correct and what people needed to be told.

 

[Notch7]

I suspect that is the problem. The message seems to be one of coercing people to be vaccinated (by controlling access to places people want to go to), and the outcome will be less deaths and severe illness and strain on the NHS. I get that.

But, many people who are vaccinated become complacent and think that they are now protected and they are protecting others from spreading the disease. And that's not the case at all.

The facts are, the virus does not know or care who's vaccinated and who's not. And if you get close to anyone else, there is a risk of catching the virus. And that's a simple fact, but not one which people seem to have registered.

It annoys me when I see the idiot questions of "can I meet my family, can I attend a party, can I go on holiday? ". Of course you can, and of course you can take on that risk of contracting or spreading the disease. You should not need a government to tell you something that's just plain common sense.

This virus is not going away anytime soon. We have to live with it. And before the anti vaxxer's all shout "yes that's right, just like we live with the common cold, open everything up stop restricting our lives", no that's not right.

We can only live with covid if the majority of the population are vaccinated and do not have to attend hospital and overload the NHS if we get sick. And that may well include 6 monthly boosters.

Unfortunately, it's pot luck if we get it bad, or die even if vaccinated. But at least the vaccines decrease the risk, not just of covid illness, but the risk of say a cancer patient not getting treatment because a really sick unvaccinated people is taking up beds and resources.

I appreciate its difficult for any government to come up with a strategy. But I feel it's all down to the message.
Remember Boris's speech early on at the start, along the lines of 'many people will die and loved ones go before their time'? He got criticised for that, and yet it was correct and what people needed to be told.

I completely agree

 

[Deleted member 292770]

when people say “oh it’s just a mild illness for most people”

It is though. Why can you not acknowledge that fact.

 

[ajohn]

Most things done about covid improve things in some respects. None are perfect. Some way to go as well. From a surveillance report

Based on antibody testing of blood donors, 98.4% of the adult population now have antibodies to COVID-19 from either infection or vaccination compared to 22.7% that have antibodies from infection alone

They quote another figure as well concerning reinfection ~7,000,000 cases . That is not infections. It's actually cases in total to compare with the number of people who appear to have been reinfected.

There are still loads of people to go and as the age range increases more people take care not to catch it in the first place.

 

[^woody^]

It is though. Why can you not acknowledge that fact.

You can say that about most diseases. Flu, pneumonia, diabetes whatever. Get it, get some treatment you'll be OK.

That's not the point.

You can choose to take on the risk yourself of how you'll be affected. That's fine, no problem with that.

But covid is different. It affects lots of people all at once, so the risk is that health care resources get used up all at once. And NHS staff get affected all at once, so compounding the problem. The anti vaxxers conveniently leave this out of their argument.

It's not about the clinical effect on the individual, but the impact on the system and the population.

 

[ajohn]

It is though. Why can you not acknowledge that fact.

They reckon it is mild for around 1/3 of people without vaccination. With delta more people have symptoms of some sort.

You best hope you are under 30 and have decent luck. Chances of that decrease with age. Vaccine change the odds rather a lot.

 

[ajohn]

Some good news based in a study. Vaccination does reduce the rate of cross infection in homes. Not completely unfortunately and other factors such as behaviour may figure. At least there is an indication that they do.

 

[JohnD]

Some good news based in a study. Vaccination does reduce the rate of cross infection in homes. Not completely unfortunately and other factors such as behaviour may figure. At least there is an indication that they do.

Reduction is worthwhile

A reduction in infections is worthwhile

A reduction in severe illness is worthwhile

A reduction in deaths is very worthwhile

Antivaxxers like EFLI and Ellal cannot bring themselves to face these facts because it renders their posturing ludicrous.

 

[Deleted member 292770]

You can say that about most diseases. Flu, pneumonia, diabetes whatever. Get it, get some treatment you'll be OK.

That's not the point.

You can choose to take on the risk yourself of how you'll be affected. That's fine, no problem with that.

But covid is different. It affects lots of people all at once, so the risk is that health care resources get used up all at once. And NHS staff get affected all at once, so compounding the problem. The anti vaxxers conveniently leave this out of their argument.

It's not about the clinical effect on the individual, but the impact on the system and the population.

Nicely put. However there is no argument regarding the impact on the poulation through hospitalisations until we know the facts.
Simply getting a nurse on the tv to say the majority of people being hospitalised are unvaccinated isn’t really good enough . out of 50 people hospitalised with covid in a given hospital , 26 could be a majority , the rest could be vaccinated.

 

[JohnD]

Nicely put. However there is no argument regarding the impact on the poulation

What does that mean?

There is no argument against the fact that vaccination reduces your chances of infection, your chances of transmission, your chances of severe illness, and your chances of death.


Why is your preference for the option that gives the highest risk of death?

Why do you find it attractive?

 

[AngleEyes]

Nicely put. However there is no argument regarding the impact on the poulation through hospitalisations until we know the facts.

What sort of facts are you waiting for?

 

[Deleted member 292770]

What sort of facts are you waiting for?

Out of the current hospitalisations , what’s the ratio of vacvinated:unvaccinated.
Although I didn’t say I was actively awaiting facts. To be frank i’m not really interested when the conversations rely on a nurse using terms like the ‘majority’.