should Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe have been more grateful?
- Thread starter Notch7
- Start date
- Joined
- 24 May 2016
- Messages
- 3,949
- Reaction score
- 775
- Country
I think she understands a change in the Iranian goverment helped secure her release but dont expect her to thank them.
There does seem to have been a reluctance re the UK paying back what they owed Iran so when she mentions the number of parliament changes while she was there I am inclined to agree. Obama paid them off for the USA. That is a while ago now.
However what's new. Some one some where will always find something to bitch about and some will agree. May be why mental health costs have rocketed as a lot more of it goes on these days.
However what's new. Some one some where will always find something to bitch about and some will agree. May be why mental health costs have rocketed as a lot more of it goes on these days.
No. She was taken care of with her family at a plush taxpayers funded residence to sweeten her up but it did not work.
I think in scenarios like this, it helps to stop for a minute and think how you would feel. Although we're not just talking pennies, I know if I'd been erroneously locked up for years and knew the government of my homeland probably had the power to get me released by paying £££, I wouldn't be in a rush to heap praise on them even though they'd eventually paid up.
It comes back to what I've said before, as humans we're a funny bunch, full of double standards. Many of the folk saying 'heck yeah she should be grateful!' very likely wouldn't be grateful themselves if they'd lived that experience.
It comes back to what I've said before, as humans we're a funny bunch, full of double standards. Many of the folk saying 'heck yeah she should be grateful!' very likely wouldn't be grateful themselves if they'd lived that experience.
She was promised by many FS' s "We're going to bring you home", but they didn't. It must have been devastating. The problem with being a hostage as opposed to a regular sentenced prisoner, is that there was no end in sight for her torment. The promises of homecoming to be replaced by many more years in prison would be horrendous.
Our government could have secured her release years ago but chose not to.
Our government could have secured her release years ago but chose not to.
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2006
- Messages
- 7,070
- Reaction score
- 1,189
- Country
Too much we don't know about what was said, when. Many issues like paying ransomes, supporting a bad regime, sticking to a contract. She was unlucky, but blame the Iranians.
Though you have to blame bigmouth Boris a bit...
Should she be grateful - no.
Though you have to blame bigmouth Boris a bit...
Should she be grateful - no.
It was politics that locked her up in the first place. It was also politics that caused the original problem.
Iran tried a court case in the UK. There representatives were deported as soon as they arrived. They managed to hold a court case some where else so some progress seems to have been made.
Start of problems
Mohammad Reza came to power during World War II after an Anglo-Soviet invasion forced the abdication of his father, Reza Shah Pahlavi. During Mohammad Reza's reign, the British owned oil industry was briefly nationalized by Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh until a Army coup d'état supported by the UK and the US deposed Mosaddegh, reinstalled the Shah, and brought back foreign oil firms under the Consortium Agreement of 1954.[5] The Shah went on to become a dominant figure in OPEC, promoting a surge in oil prices crippling Western economies
The bloke in charge then did a lot of good on the face of things but was still overthrown. I've no idea how general citizens faired. GDP can be great but who know who gets what
Worth a read
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi
Iran tried a court case in the UK. There representatives were deported as soon as they arrived. They managed to hold a court case some where else so some progress seems to have been made.
Start of problems
Mohammad Reza came to power during World War II after an Anglo-Soviet invasion forced the abdication of his father, Reza Shah Pahlavi. During Mohammad Reza's reign, the British owned oil industry was briefly nationalized by Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh until a Army coup d'état supported by the UK and the US deposed Mosaddegh, reinstalled the Shah, and brought back foreign oil firms under the Consortium Agreement of 1954.[5] The Shah went on to become a dominant figure in OPEC, promoting a surge in oil prices crippling Western economies
The bloke in charge then did a lot of good on the face of things but was still overthrown. I've no idea how general citizens faired. GDP can be great but who know who gets what
Worth a read
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi
I haven't paid that great an attention to the case to be honest but what were the UK Governments reasons for not paying the £400 million they "owed" to Iran?
- Joined
- 31 May 2016
- Messages
- 25,090
- Reaction score
- 5,500
- Country
People need to accept that if they go to countries with dodgy regimes, they might find themselves in peril, particularly as a women with dual nationality in a country that doesn't really value women as equals. That said, at the time the FCO were not warning a high risk.
The background of the deal was the former regime ordered some challenger tanks and weapons (£600m), payment in advance, regime change occurred and UK could/would no longer supply. Contract terminated, UK arguing that the £400m was LDs, only recently this was overturned by international court. The argument was similar to basic contract laws, but on an international scale.
Entities entitle to claim - we can't refund to you as you aren't the contracting party.
Liquidated damages - We suffered costs as a result of the contract termination.
and inability to do business with sanctioned entity
Statute of limitation - its quite an old debt.
Note: I'm drawing parallels not arguing these apply to international deals.
Yes she should thank the British people. Its cost us each around a £5er, probably closer to a £10er by the time you look at costs.
The background of the deal was the former regime ordered some challenger tanks and weapons (£600m), payment in advance, regime change occurred and UK could/would no longer supply. Contract terminated, UK arguing that the £400m was LDs, only recently this was overturned by international court. The argument was similar to basic contract laws, but on an international scale.
Entities entitle to claim - we can't refund to you as you aren't the contracting party.
Liquidated damages - We suffered costs as a result of the contract termination.
and inability to do business with sanctioned entity
Statute of limitation - its quite an old debt.
Note: I'm drawing parallels not arguing these apply to international deals.
Yes she should thank the British people. Its cost us each around a £5er, probably closer to a £10er by the time you look at costs.
Last edited:
It's good to see her home but I do slightly find the celebrity hostage status a bit uncomfortable. There are dozens of hostages taken for all sorts of reasons, largely ignored by the media because they don't fit the maximum public sympathy criteria. The husband said the other day in the media showcase that you can't apply normal rules when dealing with Iran because they don't think or behave normally. Which sums it up really.
You have to wonder why the debt wasn't paid 6 years ago - and if you were Nazanin you'd definitely be wondering that? It's not like it's a lot of money. But it won't be that simple.
You have to wonder why the debt wasn't paid 6 years ago - and if you were Nazanin you'd definitely be wondering that? It's not like it's a lot of money. But it won't be that simple.
- Joined
- 31 May 2016
- Messages
- 25,090
- Reaction score
- 5,500
- Country
Sanctions against Iran are the reasons the money could not be paid.
- Joined
- 17 May 2012
- Messages
- 11,233
- Reaction score
- 961
- Country
Daft to criticise her for not praising the government.
Boris Johnson literally said that she was there training journalists, when she was just visiting her parents for their new year celebrations. This resulted in a longer term.
God knows how she was treated while locked up for 6 years. She certainly does not want to talk about it. Physical, sexual, and mental torture are routinely used on femal prisoners in Iran.
"When women have suffered the terrible trauma of rape, those who survive the gallows often won’t speak out due to the shame and humiliation it would cause them. While many others have remained silent, due to the fact of threats being made against their families by the perpetrators, who warn them that if they should decide to speak out, members of their family could suffer the same fate, or their entire family would be murdered."
https://english.alarabiya.net/features/2018/05/30/Treatment-of-women-in-Iran-s-brutal-prison-system
It is very possible that if she says anything critical of Iran her parents will be arrested and imprisoned. Safest bet for her and her family is to focus on the failing of our government, and not criticise Iran.
Boris Johnson literally said that she was there training journalists, when she was just visiting her parents for their new year celebrations. This resulted in a longer term.
God knows how she was treated while locked up for 6 years. She certainly does not want to talk about it. Physical, sexual, and mental torture are routinely used on femal prisoners in Iran.
"When women have suffered the terrible trauma of rape, those who survive the gallows often won’t speak out due to the shame and humiliation it would cause them. While many others have remained silent, due to the fact of threats being made against their families by the perpetrators, who warn them that if they should decide to speak out, members of their family could suffer the same fate, or their entire family would be murdered."
https://english.alarabiya.net/features/2018/05/30/Treatment-of-women-in-Iran-s-brutal-prison-system
It is very possible that if she says anything critical of Iran her parents will be arrested and imprisoned. Safest bet for her and her family is to focus on the failing of our government, and not criticise Iran.
- Joined
- 17 May 2012
- Messages
- 11,233
- Reaction score
- 961
- Country
What a bunch of ****s. Bloke in the middle is completely clueless about how things work in Iran.
