History of the corner shop (immigration)

[opps]

I have had experience of that in a different setting. In the 70s I worked in Ireland, in Dublin and out west, often only a few days at a time, so really more of a tourist. In the 80s and 90s, though I had several stints (of 9 to 12 months at a time) living and working in Dublin, mainly on the poorer North Side (think Mrs. Brown's Boys and you sort of have it). There was an undercurrent of anti-British feeling and there were some pubs which work colleagues strongly advised me to avoid, on account of my accent. In general I found I got on with most people I worked with over there, though there were a few who didn't like me because I was a "bloody Brit". At that time there were very, very few non-Irish people in Ireland

Fast forward to 2001, when I again spent an extended period living over there (about 10 months). This time there wasn't the constant staring if you walked into a shop or a pub and spoke with a British accent. There were, however, refugees. Many of them Bosnian muslims, but there were also a substantial number of Nigerians who all seemed to be employed as "doormen" on shops. British accents were very common in areas like Temple Bar at the weekends (thanks to Ryanair's cheap flights). Brits were (mainly) no longer the issue - it was the "bloody muslims coming here and complaining about adverts on the bus shelters" (the ones with bikini-clad women advertising everything from sun-soaked holidays to alcoholic drinks).

Throughout all of this I found the best defence was to study a bit of modern Irish history, so that when attacked (verbally), for being English, I had a modicum of facts at my disposal to dispute at least some of the claims and half truths. And the Irish love a good argument, so that generally smoothed the waters. Funny old world.


Amen to that

As a kid, our only holiday each year was a car drive to county Limerick to stay at my nan's very small farm. We would drive from Ealing to Swansea and then get the ferry to Cork, and drive up to the "farm". (late 70's to early 80's)


In those days no one gave a chite about that fact that of the 4 of us kids, my sister and I had "olive" skin. It just wasn't an issue.


With regret, I accept what you say about Dublin. I have only been there once, about 7 years ago, but yeah I did notice a shift in (some) people from you lot (Brits) deserve to be unpopular to a state of "you come here and spend money- now we don't like another group of people".

Back in Limerick county, I was surprised at how many members of staff in the local hotel were Polish when I last visited before covid, but I didn't hear anyone complain about them.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

With regret, I accept what you say about Dublin. I have only been there once, about 7 years ago, but yeah I did notice a shift in (some) people from you lot (Brits) deserve to be unpopular to a state of "you come here and spend money- now we don't like another group of people".

Both wrong in their own way. How can you blame the current generation for the transgressions of generations many decades dead? As it happens the last time I was there the most obnoxious person I had to deal with was a girl in the office that I had to deal with. She was half or maybe a quarter Italian and hated me simply because I was a Brit. Nothing more. Worse for her, I was senior to her and she had to take instructions from me from time to time. I contrast her with the guy from the computer department who started a conversation with the comment that "I hate the bloody Brits, you shouldn't be in Ireland" but who subsequently joined in a few of the discussions I was in (it was a Friday night session starting in the J S Handel and moving on to the Bleedin Horse, I recall, perhaps incorrectly). At the end of the night he conceded that maybe not all Brits were bad, but our government was. Classic case of believing what your elders have told you and coming to hate something or somebody you've had no conmtact with?

 

[Hairymelon]

Why not be constructive and offer solutions, rather than repeating the same tired mantra that there's nothing to see or discuss here and we should all move along. Or don't you like people who want our MPs and government to be accountable - especially if they have screwed up so badly. Or is Brexit a resounding success which has benefitted the country so greatly?

So I am wrong in my assertion that it was democratically decided?

 

[Hairymelon]

I have moved on. It's just that Brexit hasn't. It's not only stagnated but is moving the UK backwards.

Are you happy for the UK to back-peddle? I'd rather move on from that sinking ship ta.

I don’t think you have moved on , you seem obsessed with it.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

So I am wrong in my assertion that it was democratically decided?

Not the point. You assert it is done and dusted. It isn't. It is half done, very poorly implemented, and because of that many businesses are being damaged. So. why is is such a Godawful mess? And what do people such as you think should be done to sort it out so it stops damaging the economy so much? Don't say "shut up, it's all working, it was a democratic decision", because the aftermath is not what any one voted for. Or are you happy with having this country commit economic suicide?

And WTF has this got to do with the main thrust of this topic?

 

[Hairymelon]

Not the point. You assert it is done and dusted. It isn't. It is half done, very poorly implemented, and because of that many businesses are being damaged. So. why is is such a Godawful mess? And what do people such as you think should be done to sort it out so it stops damaging the economy so much? Don't say "shut up, it's all working, it was a democratic decision", because the aftermath is not what any one voted for. Or are you happy with having this country commit economic suicide?

And WTF has this got to do with the main thrust of this topic?

Ask noseall. He mentioned it on page 1 !

 

[noseall]

Not the point. You assert it is done and dusted. It isn't. It is half done, very poorly implemented, and because of that many businesses are being damaged. So. why is is such a Godawful mess? And what do people such as you think should be done to sort it out so it stops damaging the economy so much? Don't say "shut up, it's all working, it was a democratic decision", because the aftermath is not what any one voted for. Or are you happy with having this country commit economic suicide?

And WTF has this got to do with the main thrust of this topic?

No good asking hairylemon, he's a Brexer - hasn't got a clue and probably doesn't care.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

No good asking hairylemon, he's a Brexer - hasn't got a clue and probably doesn't care.

So basically another nihilist who doesn't give a twopenny damn about the future of this country or of the British? Is he another Russian like you know who, do you think?

 

[Bod ...]

They've given up sneaking in, they're accompanied in now,

The Patagonia region in South America has the largest Welsh Speaking community outside of Wales. There may be some connection. Going back to the OP, there was one of those "Back in time for.................." programmes on recently with an Asian family running a shop, I think they were Indian. The mother was very fit for an older woman.

I was told by a Spanish looking Welsh man that it was from the Spanish Armarda

 

[Bod ...]

I went to Uni in north/east London. A guy that happened to become a very good friend came from the "sticks" he had never seen a black person before and admitted that the first time that he travelled through Tottenham he felt slightly intimidated. After a couple of weeks he realised that skin colour is irrelevant. Being a good or bad person is not a function of skin pigmentation.

Totally agree its not about colour it's about good people and bad people. However I think I'd feel a little uneasy walking the streets of Tottenham late at night.

 

[Hairymelon]

No good asking hairylemon, he's a Brexer - hasn't got a clue and probably doesn't care.

How do you know that ? You are obsessed because you started banging on about it early in this thread without any relevance. Didn’t you ?

 

[opps]

So I am wrong in my assertion that it was democratically decided?

Would you be happy to have a second referendum? To my shame I didn't vote. My "gf" had kicked me out previously whilst she was going through the menopause. My name dropped off the electoral list. The government did extent the right to vote, but I didn't have access to the ID required to vote. I would have voted remain, and (anecdotally) I know lots of people that would have voted remain but didn't believe sufficient numbers of people would vote to leave.

Does democracy, by definition mean that things can only be voted upon once? If there were a vote tomorrow, I would anticipate a very different outcome.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

I bunked off work early and am sitting in an Irish bar in Ealing, west London. Some the older Irish guys here remember the "no blacks, no Irish, no dogs" signs.

Does anyone reminisce about the reasons why people didn't want blacks, Irish and dogs? (I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with blacks, Irish and dogs, I'm asking where and why the rule originated).

I'm not aware of any potential racist issues between Sting, the Police (the pop group), Led Zeppelin and Muddy Waters.
If you know any different, I'm happy to be educated.

Led Zeppelin did covers of some blues songs on their first two LPs and claimed (in the writing credits on the record labels and covers) to have written the songs themselves, thus claiming the royalty payments. This practice was common at the time, and truly was "appropriation". They were obliged to correct the matter eventually. Clapton, famously, ensured that royalties went to the writers of any songs he covered, in some cases this was difficult due to various record industry conventions which had obscured the origins of songs.

The only silver lining is that as each year passes, the number of bigots decreases, as they pop their clogs.

Don't forget the one exception that everyone is allowed to hate in perpetuity - the conservative. I bet you don't have anything good to say about them, they are not worth any virtue signalling points and it will not affect your criminal record, salary or pension if you criticise them.

 

[Bod ...]

Would you be happy to have a second referendum? To my shame I didn't vote. My "gf" had kicked me out previously whilst she was going through the menopause. My name dropped off the electoral list. The government did extent the right to vote, but I didn't have access to the ID required to vote. I would have voted remain, and (anecdotally) I know lots of people that would have voted remain but didn't believe sufficient numbers of people would vote to leave.

Does democracy, by definition mean that things can only be voted upon once? If there were a vote tomorrow, I would anticipate a very different outcome.

If there was another vote I'd want to vote to rejoin. However if the remainers and the EU won't budge on issues like immigration then I will vote out again.

 

[Hairymelon]

Would you be happy to have a second referendum? To my shame I didn't vote. My "gf" had kicked me out previously whilst she was going through the menopause. My name dropped off the electoral list. The government did extent the right to vote, but I didn't have access to the ID required to vote. I would have voted remain, and (anecdotally) I know lots of people that would have voted remain but didn't believe sufficient numbers of people would vote to leave.

Does democracy, by definition mean that things can only be voted upon once? If there were a vote tomorrow, I would anticipate a very different outcome.

Very good point and probably correct.
But we are where we are and it will be resolved
Inflation, energy cost , war. Blame brexit Not true