RAAC

[Vinty]

It only had a 30 year life expectancy, no one did anything "wrong". Except that it has been left in place much longer than it should have been.

Why would anyone build a building with only 30 years expectancy.
Even the bible has a higher life expectancy, albeit for the children of God.
3 score and 10 is the alloted span.
If designers and Architects are aware of this proviso, why don't they plan accordingly.

 

[denso13]

If designers and Architects are aware of this proviso

They design to a client's specification.

why don't they plan accordingly.

Who says they didn't? Is it their job to plan for replacement in 30 years time?

Everything has a lifecycle replacement date, it isn't the designer's job to plan for that.

 

[Roy Bloom]

That's what I said. And the mistakes are still happening. No one is learning.

If you think Unskilled workers building good buildings then your head is up you armpit.

For the umpteeth time, the skill of the worker has nothing whatever to do with it.
The system was designed with a short term life span. The customer, i.e. the government must have been aware of this, but they failed to ensure there were sufficient funds or processes in place to properly maintain the buildings. The various funding reductions meant schools were left struggling to make ends meet.
The DofE has overall responsibility for ensuring schools are properly maintained.

As DfE has overall responsibility for the school system in England, it sets
the policy and statutory framework and has ultimate accountability for securing
value for money from the funding provided to schools, including for school buildings.
DfE distributes funding to local authorities, academy trusts and voluntary-aided
bodies, and also delivers some programmes itself.

https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/condition-of-school-buildings.pdf

 

[Roy Bloom]

If that was the case most if not all buildings would have used the stuff wouldn't they ?

One of the many problems of UK's short-termism political system.

 

[Dork Lard]

Hey, vote for me. I'll build all the schools & hospitals & municipal buildings that you think we need.

If you vote for me, then I'll build 'em out of cardboard.

 

[Roy Bloom]

These mistakes are still happening. No one is or was doing their jobs properly. Its not just the politicians, we have a far bigger problem than that.

It is the politicians fault for the choice of materials, the short-termism of politics. Do it now, on the cheap, and someone else can pick up the tab.

But that doesn't excuse the current debacle of closing schools the day before the new term/school year starts.

 

[Roy Bloom]

There is mention of a RAAC failure in retail premises

In early 2019, SCOSS were informed of damage to RAAC roofplanks at a retail premises.

para 3

https://www.cross-safety.org/sites/default/files/2019-05/failure-reinforced-autoclaved-aerated-concrete-planks.pdf

There have already been two structiural collapses of RAAC.

The partial collapse that occurred in 2018 was at a weekendso the school was fortunately unoccupied. In structuralsafety terms it was a near miss. Similarly, in the case of theEdinburgh School masonry collapse in 2016, this occurredin the early morning when no pupils were present.

para 4

https://www.cross-safety.org/sites/default/files/2019-05/failure-reinforced-autoclaved-aerated-concrete-planks.pdf

It's been known this is a problem for about 30 years.

 

[Deleted member 294929]

For the umpteeth time, the skill of the worker has nothing whatever to do with it.
The system was designed with a short term life span. The customer, i.e. the government must have been aware of this, but they failed to ensure there were sufficient funds or processes in place to properly maintain the buildings. The various funding reductions meant schools were left struggling to make ends meet.
The DofE has overall responsibility for ensuring schools are properly maintained.

https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/condition-of-school-buildings.pdf

I'm talking about mistakes bad judgement and low skill inthe industry that's still happening. Its not just about RAAC. Our building industry is to this day in a shocking state.

 

[Brigadier]

Its not just about RAAC

But this thread is.

 

[fillyboy]

Post-war national building program, when money and materials were in short supply.

What I heard, anyway.


Problem - as I've posted before - is that all governments build stuff with limited lifespans, but neither plan, nor budget for, programmed renewal.
Worse, they all try to ignore the failing infrastructure, until it can't be patched up any longer.


Back to (but not solely limited to the issue of) RAAC, imho one of the absolute worst decisions to make is flat roofing buildings.

Plus it would have been experimental to a degree, long term it hasn't worked out, if we knew then what we know now.
Pre fabricated concrete panels were considered a wonder when they were first introduced, and asbestos was brilliant.

 

[Deleted member 221031]

It is the politicians fault for the choice of materials,

I very much doubt the politicians chose the materials!

It’s easy to point the finger decades after any event. And dine out on the fallout.

 

[IT Minion]

Any explanations to why ?

The project to replace the old schools was cancelled in 2010 by Gove and never restarted.

Commercial landlords wouldn't be able to get insurance so they'd have replaced it out of need.

 

[ellal]

Why would anyone build a building with only 30 years expectancy.

Why would anyone build a washing machine with only 5 years expectancy?

To build another one to sell (or maintain the existing model at a cost) in order to keep the current corporate governance system going!

 

[Brigadier]

current corporate governance system

"Current", meaning "since the war, and possibly before that".


Why specify any building material / method?

A number of factors (in no particular order) :

- longevity
- initial cost
- ongoing cost
- aesthetics
- ease of construction / application
- insulation value
- availability
- safety
- "style" (what's trendy or in vogue)
- backhanders
- public perception

There are probably others.

 

[ellal]

Oh look, Hunt (sic) has backtracked...

"Jeremy Hunt has been accused of abandoning children disrupted by the concrete crisis in schools after the government admitted there will be no extra cash for the education budget to cover repair costs and closures"

Linky Linky

Well the 'spend what it takes' pledge didn't even last 12 hours!