Trans hospital patients in England to be banned from female- and male-only wards

[Notch7]

That isn't actually correct. but I don't want to turn another thread in to a legal argument. Sufficient to say employers have legal responsibly to provide separate spaces for males and females.

the thing is, it’s not about the law.

there is no way for a clothing shop to know if a trans women goes into the changing rooms

the only possible way would be if every woman had a gender identity certificate and a security guard checked every single person as they went in - never gonna happen.

employers may have a legal responsibility, but changing rooms have customers not employees

 

[Notch7]

Going back to the original post, surely the guardian have it wrong? They cannot be proposing to ban trans people from accessing their biological sex ward/service? A trans man may still needs a gynaecologist and a trans woman can still get prostate cancer. Its pretty obvious given that you cannot change your biological sex.

it does seem a strange argument he is making as hospital appointments and medical procedures aren’t done on wards.

 

[motorbiking]

the thing is, it’s not about the law.

there is no way for a clothing shop to know if a trans women goes into the changing rooms

the only possible way would be if every woman had a gender identity certificate and a security guard checked every single person as they went in - never gonna happen.

employers may have a legal responsibility, but changing rooms have customers not employees

They can be lawfully excluded and of course many trans people are quite obviously showing their biological sex.

None of this would have happened if a certain campaign group hadn’t pushed too far.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Perverts will be along shortly to display their outrage at such a decision.

That isn't actually correct. but I don't want to turn another thread in to a legal argument. Sufficient to say employers have legal responsibly to provide separate spaces for males and females.

Incorrect, Employers do not have to provides separate spaces for males and females.
They have to provide safe spaces, but that may not require separate male and female spaces.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Why on earth announce this at a Tory party conference?

In any case it’s only a proposal for consultation…..which Barclay could’ve done any time this year

Because they're desparate for dog-whistle eye-catching policies to announce.

 

[motorbiking]

Incorrect, Employers do not have to provides separate spaces for males and females.
They have to provide safe spaces, but that may not require separate male and female spaces.

More boll@x from you.. read s20 on

The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992​

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/3004/contents/made

 

[Roy Bloom]

Shock horror tory mps throw some 'red meat' to its audience, so easy to do in this case given the tail has been wagging the dog for such a length of time.

You think that homophobic law retractment was due to the "tail wagging the dog"?
Ot that antidiscrimination law was due to the "tail wagging the dog"?
Or that womens' suffrage was due to the "tail wagging the dog"?
Or that single sex partenerships were recognised by the "tail wagging the dog"?
etc.


Or perhaps it's asn advanced society recognising that minority groups have rights too?

 

[Roy Bloom]

More boll@x from you.. read

The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992​

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/3004/contents/made

I'm well aware of the Act. Yopu have a habit of posting up the whole article, expecting others to do the work of trawling through it.
if you're so sure, can you point out specifically where it says that employers must provided separate spaces for males and females.
If you're so sure, you must know where it says so.

 

[Roy Bloom]

While I don't really care if some bloke want's to have his willy chopped off and be turned into a wannabe woman I do support a womans right to not have to share a space with blokes with their appendages intact who feel that they should be a woman.

Are you aware of any genuine incidents of mixed sex wards causing problems. Do you think the NHS can't be trusted to make sensible decisions?
I mean genuine cases, not Daily Wail imaginary scenarios.

 

[Roy Bloom]

They can be lawfully excluded and of course many trans people are quite obviously showing their biological sex.

Not on some whim.
The spaces from which they can be excluded need to be recognised and the exclusion proportional, for genuine reasons.

 

[motorbiking]

I'm well aware of the Act. Yopu have a habit of posting up the whole article, expecting others to do the work of trawling through it.
if you're so sure, can you point out specifically where it says that employers must provided separate spaces for males and females.
If you're so sure, you must know where it says so.

if you are well aware of it, then you’ll have read s20, s21 etc. all pretty clear.

And “for dignity and privacy” reasons is perfectly sufficient for exclusion from public services.

Anyway I’m not turning another thread in to a legal argument.

 

[Roy Bloom]

if you are well aware of it, then you’ll have read s20, s21 etc. all pretty clear.

Anyway I’m not turning another thread in to a legal argument.

So post up those sections.
It's not hard to do.
Must I do it for you?

And of course you want to move on, now that it's yet again become clear that you are misinterpreting law to suit your own prejudices.

 

[Roy Bloom]

if you are well aware of it, then you’ll have read s20, s21 etc. all pretty clear.

Here I'll do it for you

Sanitary conveniences​

20.—(1) Suitable and sufficient sanitary conveniences shall be provided at readily accessible places.

(2) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (1), sanitary conveniences shall not be suitable unless—

(a)the rooms containing them are adequately ventilated and lit;

(b)they and the rooms containing them are kept in a clean and orderly condition; and

(c)separate rooms containing conveniences are provided for men and women except where and so far as each convenience is in a separate room the door of which is capable of being secured from inside.

(3) It shall be sufficient compliance with the requirement in paragraph (1) to provide sufficient sanitary conveniences in a workplace which is not a new workplace, a modification, an extension or a conversion and which, immediately before this regulation came into force in respect of it, was subject to the provisions of the Factories Act 1961, if sanitary conveniences are provided in accordance with the provisions of Part II of Schedule 1.

You said:

That isn't actually correct..... Sufficient to say employers have legal responsibly to provide separate spaces for males and females.

Unisex facilities are perfectly acceptable.
Single sex spaces are not required.

 

[gant]

Do perverts not accept they are perverts and therefore want the term banned.
After all the dictionary definition is quite clear on what it's meaning is, eg to not be considered the norm.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Do perverts not accept they are perverts and therefore want the term banned.
After all the dictionary definition is quite clear on what it's meaning is, eg to not be considered the norm.

If you want a thread to discuss the definition or pervert, I suggest you start one.
You appear to have a penchant for it.