15 Minute Cities

[SirGalahad]

The irony the same people arguing against a concept of 15 minute cities as curtailing their freedoms are the same ones who voted Brexit to curtail their freedoms.

 

[SirGalahad]

You can still park in Manchester City centre easily enough. Obviously a little walk to the shops.

But having to use a bus to reach a city centre. That’s not convenient at all.

Public transport is crap privatised rubbish. We use our cars because its more convenient barring the parking issues - I would not want to travel via train or public transport unless it was drastically improved.

You want a great alternative to car use? Make public transport cheaper and more convenient.

 

[SirGalahad]

Does that take into account the duplication of services needed, loss of economy of scale and additional logistics needed?

Just have one big court house for everyone to attend to in the midlands - economies of scale.

The argument for economies of scale always never takes into account externalities.

It's strange Amazon doesn't have one big warehouse to deliver all their goods.

 

[nwgs]

The irony the same people arguing against a concept of 15 minute cities as curtailing their freedoms are the same ones who voted Brexit to curtail their freedoms.

I didn’t vote.

 

[wobs]

Public transport is crap privatised rubbish. We use our cars because its more convenient barring the parking issues - I would not want to travel via train or public transport unless it was drastically improved.

You want a great alternative to car use? Make public transport cheaper and more convenient.

This.
And ensuring we can live in a 15min city means that we can get to most things easily, such as shops/ other amenities within walking distance.

This is in contrast to the suburbs around here (and probably elsewhere in the UK), where they are building new detached homes with gardens and no thought on the fact that they will have to drive to get to anything. The amount of traffic in these areas has mushroomed, and people now want more lanes added to the infrastructure.

Even if they drive EVs, their carbon footprint will be higher than a walkable city, and society will raise kids who are even less independent.

How anyone would want to live in such a sterile car infested ****hole is beyond me.

 

[Justin Passing]

If I can't drive from my house to park outside the shop, I don't go. There's no alternative, other than a taxi both ways.
Blue badge.

If someone's going to build new 15 minute cities, they'll need to bend over for disableds. Mobility scooters can't use bus or cycle lanes, either.

 

[SirGalahad]

This.
And ensuring we can live in a 15min city means that we can get to most things easily, such as shops/ other amenities within walking distance.

This is in contrast to the suburbs around here (and probably elsewhere in the UK), where they are building new detached homes with gardens and no thought on the fact that they will have to drive to get to anything. The amount of traffic in these areas has mushroomed, and people now want more lanes added to the infrastructure.

Even if they drive EVs, their carbon footprint will be higher than a walkable city, and society will raise kids who are even less independent.

How anyone would want to live in such a sterile car infested ****hole is beyond me.

What the right is brilliant at with their media chums is selling this policy as a curtailment of peoples freedoms when it's more about sustainable living. The same people arguing against this talk wistfully about corner shops and how things were within walking distance when they were growing up and now everything is out of town shopping.

 

[nwgs]

Even if they drive EVs, their carbon footprint will be higher than a walkable city, and society will raise kids who are even less independent.

EV carbon footprint is bigger. Have you seen how much it takes to mine and then produce a battery for one ?

 

[nwgs]

What the right is brilliant at with their media chums is selling this policy as a curtailment of peoples freedoms when it's more about sustainable living. The same people arguing against this talk wistfully about corner shops and how things were within walking distance when they were growing up and now everything is out of town shopping.

But you’d still go into a town or a city for bigger items.

I’m not sold either way at the min. And it won’t really effect me as I live in a semi rural area.

 

[SirGalahad]

But you’d still go into a town or a city for bigger items.

I’m not sold either way at the min. And it won’t really effect me as I live in a semi rural area.

Bigger items? Washing machine and TVs. Furniture I will buy online or in specialist out of town stores.

The problem for stores in town / city centres is the ever increasing cost of rent without an actual increase in the productivity of the buildings / land.

This rent has to be paid by someone. Rents cannot rise indefinitely without wages rising and if rents are rising faster than wages then something will have to give.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Public transport is crap privatised rubbish. We use our cars because its more convenient barring the parking issues - I would not want to travel via train or public transport unless it was drastically improved.

You want a great alternative to car use? Make public transport cheaper and more convenient.

There are many scenarios in an individuals life where public transport isn't and will never be a suitable alternative. It doesn't matter how they try to dress this up, what they're asking people to accept is ways of living that, for many, are less convenient. Now of course there's a debate to be had about collective responsibility, saving the planet etc, however many of us have lived most if not all of our lives in an infrastructure that is increasingly being looked on as being wrong in its design e.g. edge of town retail parks, significant road building projects etc. An infrastructure that directly or otherwise encouraged personal car use.

I'm not asserting it's wrong to debate what needs to change and to start making appropriate changes. What I'm asserting is many people (me included) will nearly always opt for personal as opposed to public transport for many reasons.

 

[denso13]

What I'm asserting is many people (me included) will nearly always opt for personal as opposed to public transport for many reasons.

That's fine, you can use your car. 15 minute cites are just principles that will be applied differently across the globe. Some will be quite different than others.

 

[noseall]

But you’d still go into a town or a city for bigger items.

I’m not sold either way at the min. And it won’t really effect me as I live in a semi rural area.

Do you drive or walk to the Synagogue?

 

[SirGalahad]

There are many scenarios in an individuals life where public transport isn't and will never be a suitable alternative. It doesn't matter how they try to dress this up, what they're asking people to accept is ways of living that, for many, are less convenient. Now of course there's a debate to be had about collective responsibility, saving the planet etc, however many of us have lived most if not all of our lives in an infrastructure that is increasingly being looked on as being wrong in its design e.g. edge of town retail parks, significant road building projects etc. An infrastructure that directly or otherwise encouraged personal car use.

I'm not asserting it's wrong to debate what needs to change and to start making appropriate changes. What I'm asserting is many people (me included) will nearly always opt for personal as opposed to public transport for many reasons.

I don't understand how building with a focus on less travel impacts your freedom to use a car because you chose to live in less urban areas, these strategies or policies are not aimed at you.

Some people prefer the convenience of living in the city centres others do not, there is no one size that fits all.

 

[wobs]

EV carbon footprint is bigger. Have you seen how much it takes to mine and then produce a battery for one ?

The evidence is not on your side.

Note that Germany is higher, probably to them burning dirty coal.
Re the manufacture of the battery:
"An electric vehicle’s higher emissions during the manufacturing stage are paid off after only 2 years compared to driving an average conventional vehicle, a time frame that drops to about one and a half years if the car is charged using renewable energy. Approximately half of a battery’s emissions come from electricity used in the manufacturing process. Battery manufacturing emissions appear to be of similar magnitude to the manufacturing of an average internal combustion engine vehicle, or approximately a quarter of an electric car’s lifetime emissions. However, recent estimates of battery manufacturing emissions vary by a factor of 10, indicating the need for additional research in this field."

Effects of battery manufacturing on electric vehicle life-cycle greenhouse gas emissions - International Council on Clean Transportation

Reviews recent research regarding greenhouse gas emissions from the manufacturing of lithium-ion batteries for electric vehicles. We analyze this research in the overall context of life-cycle emissions of electric cars as compared to conventional internal combustion vehicles in Europe. Finally...

theicct.org

What is also interesting about the chart is that the Netherlands grid is quite dirty. However, for the average Dutch person, their carbon footprint is lower overall, as they re more able to cycle/walk/use public transport than others. If they cleaned up their electricity supply, their footprint would plummet.