Am I being conned by British Gas?

[RickyW64]

Hello

I have a Glowworm back boiler which is about 23 years old which has been serviced yearly by British Gas under their homecare contract since we moved into the house in 97.

Recently, the motorised valve started to stick and wouldn't move to the hot water only position and the rads started getting hot near the valve which is in the tank cupboard. The engineer recognised it was a faulty valve and changed it and the motorised unit. However, he recommended that we consider a power flush and when I didn't agree to this then pushed the magnetic valve which would only cost me £230 whilst he had the system drained down, £350 if he had to come back. He also told me that I would no longer be insured against any component breaking down in relation to this issue as he had told me about the sludge problem and this needed to be corrected.

For info - the motorised valve has been on about 4-5 years when I had an independent come and install new controls and a thermostat and the motorised valve. Their opinion at the time was that I didnt need a power flush, even though the BG engineers who came to service my boiler each year were recommending that I have one.

The reason I'm concerned is from the moment I opened the door and a tool had been used in anger the engineer started talking about sludge in the pipes and I realised we were going to be going to the usual power flush recommendation due to the age of my system, etc (btw i've only got 2 old rads in the system now as all others have been replaced over time). When he showed me the valve there was a slight greasy coating on the inside of the pipe where it was installed. However, the water coming out of the system when he drained it down was clear, no sign of any dirt whatsoever and it is always clear water when I bleed my rads.

I'm not sure what to do now. I'm paying for a contract which will now only give me minimal cover unless I put my hands in my pocket and do the recommended remedial works. I thought the motorised valve failure was a fairly common fault and thought this is why I pay for my BG cover! I'm getting the feeling that the priority for the BG workers is to upsell to me on their visits, rather than give me the service that I pay for.

I haven't mentioned that apart from the valve problem, the system works brilliantly, all the rads get hot and we have TRVs on the rads upstairs which do a great job. Surely, if the system was sludged up I would be seeing it in poor performance and in the colour of the water when the system is drained down or I bleed it?

Any opinions would be appreciated.

Many thanks

Rick

 

[45yearsagasman]

BG bashing thread imminent!!!!!!!

The T/C's state that no repairs will be done if the fault is caused by sludge etc in the system once the owner has been informed. Its not a con as you put it, but is written into their contract terms. I can remember changing pump after pump and motorised valves on the same system, and the owner flatly refusing to have it cleaned. Now it is not allowed to continue. Having said that, some engineers do push the envelope and will try to get a sale of some sort to get extra rewards. Ignore the warning and carry on with the cover. If in the future a part fails and is not fitted because of the perceived sludge, then challenge the engineer to prove it. A slight coating inside a pipe is nothing. and would not cause valves to fail The clear water during drain down is a good sign for your system. Hope that puts your mind at rest.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Did the engineer add fresh inhibitor to the system when he refilled after changing the MV? At present is seems the system is pretty clear, but the longer it's run without any inhibitor the more chance there is for sludge to form....

 

[RickyW64]

Thanks for the replies

The engineer as far as I am aware didn't put any inhibitor into the system. He also didn't bleed the rads. After he left the CH was not heating the rads downstairs. I let out a massive amount of air from a rad near the pump and all seemed to be OK again.

I couldn't be believe he was claiming the valve was sludged up, but didnt have the confidence to challenge him other than saying it looked ok to me, I guess this is what I should have done, I thought his evidence of the coating in the pipe was a bit dubious. I also pointed out that the water in his drip tray was clear, but he just ignored this.

Also sorry for BG bashing, I have had some good engineers over the years too.

Could I also ask advice re my boiler?

Earlier this year when the boiler was serviced when my wife was at home, she was given an At Risk notice. I contacted BG and the explanation was that when it is operated at Max it fails the flue test, but not at the normal pressure for which we use the boiler and it is usually set at. The cause is because the flue spigot is dented. My wife got the impression from the engineer was that it wasn't anything to worry about, but he had to do the test.

Sorry to have a go again but this then triggered the other usual comments we get, why don't you get a new boiler, we won't be able to get parts soon, etc.

I'm wondering, could the flue be repaired or is this an all or nothing? Its frustrating that the only people faffing about with the boiler have been BG employees and it was fine until recently. Should I be asking them to repair it or would they claim wear and tear?

Again any thoughts appreciated? I thought having my gear serviced was to be less stressful!

 

[45yearsagasman]

Earlier this year when the boiler was serviced when my wife was at home, she was given an At Risk notice. I contacted BG and the explanation was that when it is operated at Max it fails the flue test, but not at the normal pressure for which we use the boiler and it is usually set at. The cause is because the flue spigot is dented. My wife got the impression from the engineer was that it wasn't anything to worry about, but he had to do the test.

Rick, I didn't mean that you were BG bashing, but some on here take delight at slagging them off.
Any boiler that fails a flue test(whatever was meant by that) should not be left operating under any circumstances. Not sure how a dented flue spigot has any bearing, unless it severely restricts the flue. I would be asking for an explanation.

 

[RickyW64]

Hi 45Y

I've got home and dug out the paperwork that was left re the boiler.

It says on the advice notice;

AR - Flue connection/ spigot damaged/dented, failed performance test at maximum. Fine at minimum, as found & left.

NCS - Multi pot termination, Gas pipe next to cable.

On the Homecare checklist he wrote in comments;

0.0143 PT @ 16.4 MB (MAX)
0.0003 PT @ 10.5 MB (AS FOUND)
Stripped & cleaned
AR - Flue 1 P.T @ Max
NCS

I hope that makes more sense. The engineer seemed to indicate that it would be ok to run as we have always done, but still issued the At Risk notice.

Again, any advice would be appreciated.

Rick

 

[45yearsagasman]

Unless they've changed the regs since I retired, a flue failure is exactly that and as such the appliance should be deemed immediately dangerous and shut off until repaired. Imagine that you sold and the new owner had the boiler updated to max imput and the consequences of a flue that is defective. I would be getting a clarification from BG on this.

 

[Agile]

It all depends on what he meant by saying "failed performance test".

That could mean not enough hot water output.

Or it could mean the CO2 was outside the makers figures. If other aspects like CO were within normal limits that might not be very important.

It all depends on what was meant!

Many things would be NCS.

Tony

 

[pallen5000]

0.0143 PT @ 16.4 MB (MAX)
0.0003 PT @ 10.5 MB (AS FOUND)

Looks like on max BP ratio is through the roof, but when BP set as it was found (Medium) the ratio is ok.

 

[45yearsagasman]

So an appliance tha fails a performance test on its designed max heat input is ok is it? I understood that it had to be remedied to make the appliance safe under all operating conditions. I would not be happy to have left a boiler like that.

 

[pallen5000]

It all depends on what he meant by saying "failed performance test".

That could mean not enough hot water output.

Its a back boiler

 

[RickyW64]

Thanks for the replies.

When I asked a BG engineer about the boiler he told me not to worry as it is not being operated at Max level. If that's the case I don't understand why it is at risk, rather than not up to current standards?

He also told me something along the lines of this is not a test that they have to perform for my particular boiler, but BG do. I don't understand how it can be at risk if it is not being operated at that level, but I do take the point that someone else could come along and change the setting on the boiler to what could be a dangerous level.

We are considering possibly moving home in the next year or two, I guess this has implications when it comes to selling in terms of the gas CH as I will have to inform the new buyers about the boiler. Would it be worth my while paying an independent engineer to test the system to get a second opinion?

With regard to the 'flue connection/ spigot damaged/dented'. does anyone know if this can be replaced, or do you have to replace the whole lot?

 

[Agile]

We don't know what is wrong with it.

Its not required to do flue analysis on a conventional burner boiler like that one.

Even if someone was to do an FGA then it would be normal to just do the FGA at the power setting it was adjusted for.

It does rather sound as if the air supply or flue flow is restricted.

It sounds as if he did not do the flue flow test which is required when doing any work on the unit.

Tony

 

[45yearsagasman]

Its not required to do flue analysis on a conventional burner boiler like that one.

It is when you work for BG, and at the designed max rate. I still maintain that leaving a boiler that fails a fga at its max is not correct. You obviously don't see it as a problem. I see no mention of the flue flow test that suggest was not done.

 

[petit_pablo]

Op - just do what every other customer does, wait until the next breakdown before even considering a flush. Then it depends who turns up and what the fault is.

Regards the At Risk - BG policy is to test at max rate then test at the range rated setting. The boiler set at its range rated setting is operating safely but worst case scenario if the gas valve regulator failed to max then it would potentially be unsafe.