Anyone help with a Potterton Profile Prima 80e?

[ninsman]

Can anyone help with some advice please?
I have a profile prima80 and for the first time ever during an annual service the guy (new this year to us) ran a naked light from a cigarette lighter up the joint on the white cabinet and when it reached the very top the flame ducked down towards the joint and he then declared that we couldnt use it until he fitted a new seal and it may be likely that we need a new boiler. I have been caught so often in the past I am just wondering if this could actually be true. I bought this boiler because I was told that it was room sealed by the flue pipe that provides the air in and exhaust out and that the case was just cosmetic. Anyone know please???

 

[ollski]

You certainly won't NEED a new boiler, but you will probably need a new case seal...they compress. If it is a negative pressure boiler ie sucking in the flame, it won't do any harm for a day or so. There is a maufacturer tolerance in the seal that allows some movement of the flame.

It should be done by a match by the way, a lighter flame is propelled.

 

[gasmick2]

hi this model boiler is a positive case and he is correct , i normally test it with a smoke match you can only use a seal thats made by the manufactures if its still available , the reason he has told you you cannot use it is because fumes are entering the room,so its classed as I D

 

[mickyg]

hi this model boiler is a positive case and he is correct , i normally test it with a smoke match you can only use a seal thats made by the manufactures if its still available , the reason he has told you you cannot use it is because fumes are entering the room,so its classed as I D

pretty sure the prima is negative pressure, the profile is positive, maybe where your getting confused. In any case if the case seals and grommets are complete and in good condition the manufacturers have an "allowable tolerance." What that actually equates to is anyones guess though but all in all you are allowed a very minor escape, which if required can be corrected with silicone(something I've managed to avoid so far)

 

[ninsman]

Thanks Guys I am much obliged for the comments.
The engineer definitely said Negative pressure case and that I assume is bourne out by the fact that the flame ducked towards the seal. If it was positive I would have thought it would be coming out and would have blown the flame also my Carbon Monoxide alarm situated 12" from the top of the boiler would be singing to us. What worried me was his comments that we might need a new boiler but I guess he is one of those doom and gloom merchants who always think things will be the worse and not trying to drum up work during hard times. Thanks again.

 

[nickso]

i find it unlikely you will need a new boiler, the potty prima is one of those boilers that seem to go on forever.

 

[Gasguru]

If the boiler is definately a Prima then I suspect the installer is trying it on. On a negative pressure boiler just a visual check of the seal is really only required since combustion products can't leak from the casing.

I've never seen any recommendation to smoke test positive pressure boilers and it may be futile due to tolerances as mentioned above.

I hope the flue was checked...the inner duct often corodes (also replaceable).

 

[ninsman]

Yes it's definitely a prima 80e and we had a new flue fitted last year. He did check the flue but still insisted we turn off the boiler and use the emersion until he fits a new seal because it's possible to be killed in our beds.
Up to last year the makers used their own engineers but this year they seem to be using a sub-contractor. I will wait to see what he says after the seal is fitted and if he pursues the mater I will call the makers (especially as I now know a bit more than nothing about the equipment thanks to you guys).
One things for sure I'm not going to buy a new boiler! Thanks for the advice I am glad I found this site.

 

[corgiman]

Pretty sure that is a neg boiler as well

but better safe than sorry and even a neg boiler needs to have a good combustion seal

 

[ninsman]

After all your comments I decided to telephone Baxi Service and ask what was happening. The Service department couldnt understand why he was carrying out this test with a lighter and why we were being told that we may need a new boiler, they commenting that all previous services were with their own men and this was the first sub-contractor they have used for my boiler. They wouldnt say I can use the boiler because it was in the hands of this engineer who they cannot currently contact so they put me through to the Technical department. I asked why, since the flame was sucking inwards, was I not able to use the boiler until he fits a new seal as I have a carbon monoxide alarm directly above. The guy said it's a positive pressure boiler and if there is a leak it's dangerous, I said I dont think so as previous engineers and even this one had said negative. He went away and returned declaring that the senior Technical manager says it's definitely positive. I said ok then why is the flame being sucked in and not blown out if that's true. Prolonged silence and then asked me to e-mail the problem but wouldnt give any advice. AND THAT'S THE MANUFACTURERS!!!!

 

[Gasguru]

Have a look under the boiler. There will be a little "door" to unclip. Remove the screw and slide off the plastic controls cover.

Have a look at the data plate. You will find a GC number. Profile Prima 80e should be 41 605 74. If so it's definately negative pressure.

 

[ninsman]

It absolutely says G.C. 41-605-74.
Well if the Senior Technical Manager and the Technical help desk both think its positive what the hell chance do we mere mortals have of getting proper service from them. It seems to me that if this sub-contractor engineer is wrong (intentionally or otherwise) Baxi Potterton dont have the people anymore to put him right!
I am still waiting for him to return, they have tried since 9.30am to contact him to find out whats happening and we just sit here like lemons waiting and twiddling our thumbs.
Thanks for you help.

 

[corgiman]

Do Baxi use subbies now?

I thought heateam done all their work?

 

[ninsman]

Yes, The service people told me that they use them when they are short of their own staff.
Outcome so far is that I have told them that I dont have any confidence in this guy and I am very upset that we stayed in all day on his say so and not even a phone call from him to tell us he wasnt coming, even Heateam couldnt get in contact with him so I asked for their own Engineer to come back with the seal and deal with my boiler as they always have. They have agreed to do this so I wont have to have the subbie back.

 

[Agile]

I dont know if your boiler is pos or neg.

However, I have always thought its a boiler between the Netaheat and the Profile and therefore likely to be positive case pressure.

However, the lighter flame being sucked into the boiler does indicate that its negative pressure and that the case seal is LEAKING !!!

Tony