Bathroom light, no earth. Ok to add one?

[cubegame]

We recently moved into a new house and want to replace an old plastic light batten in the bathroom with a new spotlight.

However, there is no earth wire on the lighting circuits (it could have been cut right back but I presume not as the house is quite old).

The new light does require an earth cable (metal base plate) and I was wondering if there was another option besides a rewire.

Above the light fitting in the loft there is a cold water pipe leading to the main header tank. Would it be safe as a temporary measure to run an earth wire from this pipe specifically for this light fitting or not?

Cheers for any answer

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not.

Absolutely not.

An aged installation with no earth on the lighting circuits is crying out for a proper inspection now, because now is the time to fix any problems, and make any changes, not a year down the track when you've painted/papered/floored etc.

 

[cubegame]

Are we talking fundamentally unsafe or just in the territory of infringing the nanny state building regs?

Inspection/rewire is simply not an option due to the cost. Even if I had the spare cash for this the mess would be intolerable (to restore the decorative order) and what guarantee do I have that regulations change another two years making a new install "old hat".

If it's fundamentally unsafe to fix this fitting in this manner, it goes back to the store and gets replaced with a double insulated equivalent.

 

[Spark123]

Using your pipework to earth a light fitting is unsafe. Nothing to do with the b/regs, just plain old unsafe.

 

[plugwash]

Even if the pipe was well earthed (which is something that you almost certainly do not have appropriate test equipment to verify) there is no gaurantee it will stay that way.

"temporary" measures like this also have a very nasty habbit of becoming permenent.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Are we talking fundamentally unsafe or just in the territory of infringing the nanny state building regs?

Fundamentally unsafe.

Inspection/rewire is simply not an option due to the cost. Even if I had the spare cash for this the mess would be intolerable (to restore the decorative order)

LABTYD.

If your wiring is so old that it doesn't have an earth on the lighting circuit that makes it, IIRC, over 40 years old. It may contain rubber insulated cables which could fail and cause a fire at any time. It may contain undersized cables. It may not have an adequate main earth. It may not have RCD protection on sockets.

In short it may actually be in a dangerous condition.

But hey - what's a matter of life and death when compared to wallpaper?

and what guarantee do I have that regulations change another two years making a new install "old hat".

Probably not - the latest version is only just out, and they don't change that often.

And even when they do, the changes are not retroactive. I'm not advising you to have the installation checked because it might not conform to the latest regulations but because it might kill you.

If it's fundamentally unsafe to fix this fitting in this manner, it goes back to the store and gets replaced with a double insulated equivalent.

No metal switches anywhere either....

 

[Chri5]

Inspection/rewire is simply not an option due to the cost. Even if I had the spare cash for this the mess would be intolerable (to restore the decorative order) and what guarantee do I have that regulations change another two years making a new install "old hat".

Consider cabling as permanent infrastructure. Good cabling, well designed, correctly installed will give service to 2040+

The regs may change, but that seldom is are they retrospective and would not warrant a fully rewire (if the wire was sound).

Yours has no lighting cable CPC/ earth and could potentially become dangerous. More so with metal based fittings and switches.

Please consider doing the sensible thing and plan for a rewire.

There is absolutely no point in dressing up a house to look nice with fireplaces, decent decorations, smart bathrooms and a flash kitchen and having unsound wiring.

Such things are discovered when selling property via surveys and electrical PIR's and it will devalued any hard work you put in to the rest of the property.
Anyone buying will quickly twig that a rewire is necessary and that some fabric damage is required to do so.

If nothing else for maintenance purposes you could arrange room by room rewiring as you clean up and decorate each room.
I've done a few rewires on a section by section basis, working with the homeowner.

Then the laminate can go down and the silk wall papers go up

 

[oharaf]

Cube Game, let me tell you a little story from my recent re-wire job.

I arrived and inspected the house, I found rubber insulated cable behind a switch to a light, as I replaced the cover the cable failed / snapped, then at another switch I found fabric coated cable, some of the fabric was singed

Whilst I worked through the job I came across more and more very old cables in a state that would potentially have meant catastrophic failure at some point.

The couple had already lost 2 lights before I had arrived.

There were little extensions to circuits every where, junction boxes galore, connecter blocks burried in walls, fittings in special locations breaking all the regs on zones.

However most of this you could not see until I literally unearthed them.

What you need to ask yourself is this

Do you want a super looking house straight away, that might potentially kill you, your wife, your kids or anyone visiting in a short space of time, or would you prefer to have a few channels in your walls for a few months longer knowing that they contain new cables, correctly installed, inspecte, tested and safe, meaning you could sleep at night?

I, my wife and daughter lived with rubble, floor boards in one room for 6 months whilst we made our house SAFE, structurally and electrically.

We haven't had the money to complete all the decor in one go, but at least I know when my child has a shower or flicks a socket switch they are as safe as they can be.


Electricity does not discriminate it just strikes when you are least expecting it!!!

Re-wire and stay alive, get a sparky in to test and advise you

 

[IJWS15]

Take their word for it.

We bought a house a few years ago with no earth on the lighting circuit.

The insulation was rubber which degrades when hot - goes hard so when you bend it it falls off the conductors - including the live ones.

There were Neutral fuses - including the main fuse

The sockets were all on radials and many had the live/neutral switched.

You could have any, or all, of these!

Get an electrician to look at it for you and decide when you hear what they have to say.

 

[cubegame]

Thanks for everyone's advice. I certainly won't be following the course of action I originally suggested.

However, all the wiring in the house is plastic coated and I've actually come to suspect that there is actually and earth on the lighting circuit which has been cut back as I noticed that there is an unidentifed third uninsulated wire connected into a piece of terminal block behind a light fitting I took off in the bedroom.

This may have been cut back too far for me to use it in the bathroom but if, as I suspect, the earth does exist I presume that it would be an easy enough task to rerun a new piece of 3-core cable back to the nearest junction box to give me a proper earth?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Well - if you want to risk your safety, and that of your family, on wiring installed by someone stupid enough to cut the earth back, and assume that everywhere else he will have done it properly and that any earth you find must have continuity back to the CU.......

 

[plugwash]

This may have been cut back too far for me to use it in the bathroom but if, as I suspect, the earth does exist I presume that it would be an easy enough task to rerun a new piece of 3-core cable back to the nearest junction box to give me a proper earth?

You MUST verify the earth actually connects all the way back to the CU. If someone has cut off one earth there is a good chance they have done the same in other places.

 

[oharaf]

Assume nothing, prove everything before you do anything!!!

If you've got the kit and more importantly the skills and knowledge then I would test every circuit and fitting in your house; and Ze, Zs and PFC. In words get a PIR

If you haven't then you must get someone in who can.

Sounds to me as if the bodgit boys have been in residence!!!

 

[DIYANIMAL]

Hi Chaps,

New here and I thought i'd chip in on this one.

There is a good "best practise" guide issued by the ESC on this issue

best practise guide no cpc in lighting circuits

A bit about me, i'm an electrical contractor, family business established in 1985.

My father started the business after being made redunant from his position as a technical manager from one of the regional electricity boards back in the day, I joined the business after university 12 years ago.

I have a HND in electrical engineering, as well as C&G 2391

We are NICEIC approved contractors and have been since 1990.

We take electrical safety very seriously, as everyone should, so I hope to be able to help out.

 

[RF Lighting]

Welcome aboard

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