Boiler Service - What fun! 7 hours and limited response from Intergas

[Rhothgar]

My plumber mate came round yesterday to do a boiler service on my Rapid 32.

I have an Intergas outside weather sensor also connected.

He installed it two years ago.

He's never worked on Intergas before and I'm not sure he wants to again. He wanted to take a look inside it anyway and perhaps learn something.

Measured 22mbar at the gas meter and 20mbar at the gas valve on the boiler.

I have to say the Intergas manual is a little vague. It basically says take off the casing and clean out heat exchanger but the expansion vessel weighs a ton and there is nowhere to really rest it.

So he calls Intergas and speaks them and they say it only needs cleaning out every 3 years and will need new gaskets.

So he proceeds with CO2 test. It's out of limits on High test. As it cannot be adjusted on high, we perform the low test. It's within limits for CO2 at 8.5%.

So we call Intergas again. They say turn it up to 9.1 which is the maximum %age for CO2 on LOW. This should result in 9.4% for CO2 on HIGH test. It was 8.2%!!!

According to the manual, O2 reading should reduce when CO2 is increased.

Bear in mind that it's never needed touching from factory so how can it be so out?

We call Intergas again. They say tweak it up to 9.1%. He does that and the CO2 on HIGH is still out of limits and the O2 is even worse at 6.4%. It should be a max of 5.6%.

So I call Intergas getting concerned that it seems to be out of spec and they say, "Well it could be down to atmospheric conditions, etc., etc.!"

Plumber mate purges his analyser, changes the filters and we do it all again. No change!

Call Intergas and they say "Tweak it up to 9.2%" so I say to them, "but that's out of limits according to the manual". Then they say "It doesn't matter."

Obviously, I'm a bit worried about any warranty issues. They said could come out and have a look for £90 but if it's found that there is a problem they will sort it at their cost.

I've already paid for a boiler service. I don't want to have to pay them. Likelihood is they would fudge the figures to warrant charging me I reckon.

Flame Efficiency at its original low reading was like 99.1% from memory. As soon as my mate started tweaking it, it dropped to 98%.

He's happy to come back and have another play but what is the best setting for it to get the best efficiency.

I don't suppose cleaning of the heat exchanger would have made any difference to the readings, would it? If so, I'll get him to order the gaskets in and do a full 3 year service.

Has anyone else noticed all the anomalies in the Rapid 32 manual in respect of Section Codes being all wrong?

I like things to be RIGHT!

 

[Rhothgar]

Just been pawing through the manual specs and it says it should use 3.39 m3/h of natural gas on full tilt.

It only have 2.87 according to plumber as it said a factor of 1.11 is applied. I know it was 3.20m3/h before the factor was applied. 1 cubic foot in 31.88 seconds? Does this shed any light on the figures being wrong on my original post? I'm guessing it's probably not consequential.

 

[ianmcd]

Site rules do not allow us to comment on gas issues, but you are miles out, your boiler is still under warranty, so use Intergas

 

[muggles]

Was he definitely testing it correctly? There are two "High" settings - h, and H. Use the wrong one and it'll upset all the tests. It's also possible that the weather sensor being connected was upsetting the readings. And yes, the main burner gasket should be replaced if the boiler is opened up

 

[Razor900]

Was he definitely testing it correctly? There are two "High" settings - h, and H. Use the wrong one and it'll upset all the tests. It's also possible that the weather sensor being connected was upsetting the readings. And yes, the main burner gasket should be replaced if the boiler is opened up

Big or little H wouldn't make much difference to the combustion. It sounds like either a faulty gas valve or wrong restrictor disk

 

[Madrab]

He installed it 2 years ago and has never worked on them before? That's a bit of a contradiction?? It's also a little concerning that he can't sort this all out by himself? There shouldn't really be a need to be coming onto a DIY forum to fault find a 2 year old boiler that isn't running within it's range.

The expansion vessel should swing out of the way on it's hinge enough though just need to be careful.

If the boiler won't come into range even when following the advice from Intergas then, as @ianmcd suggest, it should be a warranty call and your gas safe chap should know that.

 

[Rhothgar]

Was he definitely testing it correctly? There are two "High" settings - h, and H. Use the wrong one and it'll upset all the tests. It's also possible that the weather sensor being connected was upsetting the readings. And yes, the main burner gasket should be replaced if the boiler is opened up

He used the H setting as stated by the manual.

After posting last night, I read the manual virtually cover to cover and noticed that. Test h is for central heating and Test H is for direct hot water so I wonder if this was the issue.

So when you ask was he definitely testing it correctly, I have no idea. He followed what the manual stated. H test first then L test. The manual makes NO reference to whether that test should be done on CH or DHW, it clearly states "make sure a capital H appears in the display to ensure the appliance is run at full power" in the testing procedure.

I noted also in the technical specs that maximum power on DWH is 32.7kWh and on CH it's only 31.9kWh.

He did tell Intergas that it had a weather sensor connected and they said they didn't think that would make a difference! Didn't think it would? I heard them say it as they were on speakerphone.

 

[Rhothgar]

He installed it 2 years ago and has never worked on them before? That's a bit of a contradiction?? It's also a little concerning that he can't sort this all out by himself? There shouldn't really be a need to be coming onto a DIY forum to fault find a 2 year old boiler that isn't running within it's range.

The expansion vessel should swing out of the way on it's hinge enough though just need to be careful.

If the boiler won't come into range even when following the advice from Intergas then, as @ianmcd suggest, it should be a warranty call and your gas safe chap should know that.

He'd never installed an Intergas before 2 years ago and hasn't since I believe and last year the readings passed so he's never had to adjust an Intergas.

It concerned me too but he's Gas Safe Registered as I always check anyone that works on my house and re-check them before they do a service. I want to know they are up-to-date.

The expansion vessel on a Rapid 32 does not swing out of the way. He undid a clip on the left hand side and there was no hinge on the right hand side. There is a bracket which he unclipped it from on the right. Perhaps he didn't need to unclip it but it's definitely not 'fixed' per se.

He spoke to them several times, each time on speakerphone, so I heard what was being said. They told him to turn it up above the highest limit for the LOW setting. There was also one part of their instructions that confused him.

It states "The deviation of the O2 analyser must be restricted to +/- 0.3%". He read that out loud and said he didn't understand it and that he wouldn't know how to restrict his analyser. He admitted I don't know how to change the settings on it. It's a TPI 709R? He asked me to get the instructions up for it. It didn't inspire confidence in me to be honest...

 

[bernardgreen]

It's also a little concerning that he can't sort this all out by himself?

But he wasn't "by himself" was he. He was talking to some one in the manufacturer's organisation.

One would hope that a manufacturer's technical help line would be able to give effective guidance once they had confirmed it was a GasSafe person they were talking to.

Of course he could have been talking to a non-technical person reading the advice from a screen.

 

[Madrab]

The expansion vessel on a Rapid 32 does not swing out of the way

Yes it does, the bracket hangs on hooked clips that sit into the left hand edge of the case, it is lifted slightly up so it clears the braided hose and then swings out to nearly 90deg. Same configuration as the X series I believe.

If you are at all concerned then I would put out the feelers for someone that is experienced working on IG boilers.

 

[Madrab]

But he wasn't "by himself" was he. He was talking to some one in the manufacturer's organisation

It should have been sorted out to a conclusion by the engineer ("by himself/on his own") and not then left the boiler potentially out of spec with the owner to investigate it further and then have to come onto a forum to query, that's what I was referring to.

If the engineer ('himself') can't get the boiler running within its range by following the MI, or discussing it with IG tech, then if the boiler is within warranty then it's a service call as there is obviously something not right. Either that or the engineer ('himself') doesn't have the correct skills to correct the issue.

I wouldn't be working/leaving it with the customer if I couldn't get a boiler to run within spec. Once all adjustments or advised changes were applied and it still wouldn't adjust properly then I ('myself') would conclude that then has to be an issue somewhere that couldn't be corrected and would then require a warranty call out.

Hope that clears up the context.

 

[Rhothgar]

But he wasn't "by himself" was he. He was talking to some one in the manufacturer's organisation.

One would hope that a manufacturer's technical help line would be able to give effective guidance once they had confirmed it was a GasSafe person they were talking to.

Of course he could have been talking to a non-technical person reading the advice from a screen.

Even more worrying then!!!

 

[Rhothgar]

Yes it does, the bracket hangs on hooked clips that sit into the left hand edge of the case, it is lifted slightly up so it clears the braided hose and then swings out to nearly 90deg. Same configuration as the X series I believe.

If you are at all concerned then I would put out the feelers for someone that is experienced working on IG boilers.

Yep. I am concerned even more now. Thanks for sharing that. I guess if he's never opened an Intergas up before he's not going to be fully conversant with it. I don't know how plumbers go on with all the different boilers. I suppose they just specialise in one or two brands?

I have got a plumber mate who installs nothing but Intergas and he was the won who recommended it. He just wasn't available at the time to fit it and it was November 2018 and bloody freezing. We just couldn't wait any longer. It was SO cold.

 

[Rhothgar]

It should have been sorted out to a conclusion by the engineer ("by himself/on his own") and not then left the boiler potentially out of spec with the owner to investigate it further and then have to come onto a forum to query, that's what I was referring to.

If the engineer ('himself') can't get the boiler running within its range by following the MI, or discussing it with IG tech, then if the boiler is within warranty then it's a service call as there is obviously something not right. Either that or the engineer ('himself') doesn't have the correct skills to correct the issue.

I wouldn't be working/leaving it with the customer if I couldn't get a boiler to run within spec. Once all adjustments or advised changes were applied and it still wouldn't adjust properly then I ('myself') would conclude that then has to be an issue somewhere that couldn't be corrected and would then require a warranty call out.

Hope that clears up the context.

Thanks for the advice.

I'll be giving my old buddy (who only does IG) a call to see if he can service it and failing that Intergas. I imagine if he only does IG then he will have the service items on hand that might be needed to correct it assuming it is something minor like a gas ring?

 

[Madrab]

I'll be giving my old buddy (who only does IG) a call to see if he can service it and failing that Intergas. I imagine if he only does IG then he will have the service items on hand that might be needed to correct it assuming it is something minor like a gas ring?

Yup, definitely