Correct Connections For Honeywell G4 and Elmdene Rapier G3S - SOLVED

[fatthumbs]

Hi, I wonder if I can call on you guys to help a newbie. I'm attempting to upgrade my alarm sounder since the xenon has now failed on my old unit. I am using the Optima Compact GEN4 and trying to connect a Elmdene Rapier G3S.

I seem to have most of it working with the exception of the sounder. When i run through the alarm testing function, i can set the strobes off but not the sounder.

The connections I have made are;

Alarm Panel > Sounder
A > H-
D > H+
B > R-
Strobe - > ST-
T > TR

mini connectors

R Hold set to None
ST Hold set to None
SAB set to On

I have also connected TS to H- as i think i needed to do this to sort the tamper circuit out. As I say, the tamper seems to work as expected, as does the strobe.

I'm also not really understanding the bit in the manual that talks about needing to use resistors as a shunt across the 12V and siren trigger.

Can any one out there offer some assistance please?? If you are wondering why I went for a difficult to wire alarm box, simply I came home the other day to find the plastic one had been knocked off the wall, and given the elmdene is fully metal, i'm assuming it will take a rather dedicated individual to repeat this. I am assuming it was during this the xenon broke..... I hadn't appreciated when i bought it it wouldn't be a relatively straight swap.

Kindest regards
Paul

 

[secureiam]

sounds like its not seeing the bell trigger, if you take the bell trigger wire manually to zero volts does it fire?

what is the voltage of the bell trigger?

Have you gone through the diagnostics, the manual is detailed had has various indications when the cover is removed.

 

[fatthumbs]

Hi,
Thanks for replying. So in answer to your questions;

1) leaving all other connections, removing the bell trigger initiates the sounder, placing it back it stops the sounder

2) with all cables disconnected, the voltage between the D & B is 12.99V with bell set to be on, when bell is set to be off it drops relatively slowly to somewhere in the region of 0.2V, but here is the weird thing i have just found out, with the wires connected as described in first post the voltage between D & B is also 12.99V with bell set to on, but when i turn the bell off AND connect the voltage meter across D & B it fires the sounder, the voltage is then 9.40V during the bell sounding, when the bell has deactivated (5s mode) it rises to 9.71V. The alarm doesn't stop sounding the bell the second the voltage meter is removed, it sounds until the 5 seconds is up. I'm using a digital multimeter if its important.

3) going through the diagnostics right now....

Thanks
Paul

 

[fatthumbs]

Hi,
Just want to add something.

On item 2, when the multimeter is bridging D & B, when i toggle the bell on/off command, the sounder responds immediately, but in reverse, i.e when set to off, the bell is on and when set to on the bell is off. This is when the R Hold links are off. If I add the R Hold link (set to +ve), then what I have just described toggling the on off doesn't make any difference.

I tested the strobe in sort of the same way as 2) in post above with the cables connected remembering that the strobe works as expected. With the strobe set to ON the voltage is 12.99V and with it set to off it is 3V. Again the ST hold is off.

Not sure if that helps any?
Kind regards
Paul

 

[fatthumbs]

Hi,
OK, commissioning and testing completed as expected. No issues that i can tell.

So, I'm assuming that the triggers work in the same way for both strobe and bell, I have put the strobe trigger in the bell and the bell trigger into the strobe. The results are;

Turning the bell on/off (which should now turn the strobe on/off) - Turns on the strobe as expected (on when on and off when off)
Turning the strobe on/off (which should now turn the bell on/off) - turns the bell on when OFF, and the bell off when ON

To remind ourselves what happens when the connections are done properly;

Turning the bell on/off - Does NOTHING
Turning the strobe on and off - Turns on the strobe as expected (on when on and off when off)

So, i figured a solution though clearly not a great one is to connect the triggers together at the bell box. Here is what happened;

Turning the bell on/off (strobe set to off) - Bell AND strobe turns on and off in time with me controlling it, the strobe continues to flash after the 5 seconds until i turn this command off
Turning the strobe on and off - Bell AND strobe turns on and off in time with me controlling it, the strobe continues to flash after the 5 seconds until i turn this command off

So, I also tested in a 'real' situation, i.e. put the alarm into active and created a situation where it went off. As expected the sounder and strobe went off, and the strobe continued to sound after the sounder timed out. I'm not sure what will happen when it rearms itself.

Does this help with any diagnosis??

Kind regards
Paul

 

[secureiam]

what mode is the bell box in for the trigger?

The fact the panels strobe terminal triggers the bell siren in reverse would suggest that the bell siren trigger is reversed.

Once its working the right way round, with the strobe trigger being used, look at the resistor option to the bell trigger if the bell trigger isn't working on its own.

normally if you take the bell trigger wire to 0V manually it would also fire unless in SCB mode and then thee trigger is effectively reversed.

sounds like your almost there.

 

[fatthumbs]

Hi Secure I Am,

In 2 replies I'm pretty sure you have cracked it! Thank you for spending your Sunday helping me.

To make the alarm and panel work, noting that this is almost identical to the manual, I'm not sure how i could have got it wrong apart from me having the SAB set to OFF, but your logic and clear questions and directions got me there.

For the benefit of summarising the thread for anyone else looking, here are the final settings which work fully as expected.

Panel G3S
A H-
D H+
B R-
ST- ST-
T TR

In the bell box loop TS & H-
In the control panel loop with a 10k ohm resistor D & B (I used a 2W one as i wasn't sure how much energy it would need to dissipate - doesn't get in any way warm)

Set the SAB to ON
R Hold to OFF
TS Hold to OFF

Thanks ever so much. I'll now work out how to do a 'thanks received'. You are a credit to this forum, my most humble and sincere thanks.
Paul