Could Russia hang on a bit till we get the right diversity to fight them

[charliegolf]

The problem with that approach is that you will never reduce the very real problem of racism, sexism, etc in the military while it is excessively dominated by white males.

Once the organisation has rid itself of its racist and sexist, etc culture, then the true meritocracy can be applied.

Between those two points there will be war fighting to do, and having lost, being able to say, "Yeah but we weren't racists or misogynists so we retain the high ground." is going to be a real comfort.

 

[Pat ex]

Rock. Singular. See Sisyphus.

Are you suggesting that racism and sexism in the military cannot be eradicated, so there's no point in trying?

 

[Pat ex]

Anybody can apply to join the Armed Forces. If they meet the criteria, they're in and if they don't, they are quite rightly rejected.

And those that don't want to due to the racist and sexist culture, who not only meet the criteria, but far surpass it and have greater skills and attributes to offer, are lost due to the unjust dominant culture. That reduces the capability and the ability of the military, and causes them to think in the same old, same old.
In addition the military will continue to recruit those that accept racism and sexism as the norm.

 

[Pat ex]

In order for certain people to be disadvantaged, they would have to have been subjected to different criteria to that applied to white males at the time they applied.

Do you have any evidence of that ever happening?

Wherever discrimination is active, then disadvantage occurs. That's what discrimination means.
The data concerning advancement in correlation to ethnicity and gender in the military is sufficient evidence.
The reality of crimes against individuals is sufficient evidence.

At the end of the day, you can't force women/BAME to apply to join our Armed Forces. So the idea that recruiting more of them at the expense of white males in order to stop racism/sexism is, frankly, laughable.

But you can encourage it by providing a culture based on inequality.
The very fact that fewer ethnic minorities and females want to join is sufficient to cause concern. And often those that do join are subjected to discrimination.

 

[JohnD]

Between those two points there will be war fighting to do, and having lost, being able to say, "Yeah but we weren't racists or misogynists so we retain the high ground." is going to be a real comfort.

if the govenment has decreed that the armed forces are only allowed to be, say, a hundred thousand strong, why do you think that enabling people to join who are not white, middle-class Englishmen will be the cause of Britain losing wars?

 

[Pat ex]

Between those two points there will be war fighting to do, and having lost, being able to say, "Yeah but we weren't racists or misogynists so we retain the high ground." is going to be a real comfort.

Racism and sexism are not requirements to win wars. Quite the opposite, they will probably cause and prolong more conflicts.

 

[Odds]

Are you suggesting that racism and sexism in the military cannot be eradicated, so there's no point in trying?

No
Read the myth.
Never give up, despite the endless difficulties on that hill.

 

[THFC]

And those that don't want to due to the racist and sexist culture, who not only meet the criteria, but far surpass it and have greater skills and attributes to offer, are lost due to the unjust dominant culture. That reduces the capability and the ability of the military, and causes them to think in the same old, same old.
In addition the military will continue to recruit those that accept racism and sexism as the norm.

And how exactly do you know that? Apart from the academic requirements, there's also quite a challenging fitness test.

 

[transam]

Gaddaffi had woman body guards to protect him

They all did a runner

 

[Justin Passing]

Multiple issues here.
If abuse and discrimination are happening, the buck stops with the Chief of the defence staff, and the Defence sec.
So what are they doing about it?

 

[fillyboy]

Between those two points there will be war fighting to do, and having lost, being able to say, "Yeah but we weren't racists or misogynists so we retain the high ground." is going to be a real comfort.

 

[Pat ex]

What does 'keep on pushing the rocks uphill' mean in actual policy?

No
Read the myth.
Never give up, despite the endless difficulties on that hill.

Going back to my original question:
What does 'keep on pushing the rock uphill' mean in actual policy?

 

[Pat ex]

And how exactly do you know that?

Hence the military needing to adjust their recruit policy.

 

[Pat ex]

Multiple issues here.
If abuse and discrimination are happening, the buck stops with the Chief of the defence staff, and the Defence sec.
So what are they doing about it?

They are adjusting their recruitment policy, much to the chagrin of the white males.

 

[ajohn]

They are adjusting their recruitment policy, much to the chagrin of the white males.

Going on the make up of the armed forces it isn't much out of sync with the general population.

However - go towards the top jobs much like many fields things are different. That does not actually have to be down to racism.

Take another field
White people made up 77.9% of all NHS staff (out of those whose ethnicity was known) Asian people made up 10.7% of NHS staff, compared with 7.2% of working age people. Black people made up 6.5% of NHS staff, compared with 3.4% of working age people.

You might say that is down to aspirations and wanting the jobs as this split isn't what might be referred to as new,

A real example of racism that is far more significant than many others. A well qualified colleague also capable who has a very english sounding name. He gets interviews. He knows similar people who don't have the name advantage. Far harder for them to even get interviews. Which ever colour can prevent people from getting the job irrespective of anything else.