Couldn't get EICR due to no RCD Protection

[Mr Sparkle]

Called an electrician to give me an EICR

However when he took a look at the fuse box he said that as it doesn't have RCD protection consequently there is no point in going ahead..

Is this correct?

The fuse box is the original fuse box that was installed in my flat in 1998. It is a third floor flat

Could the electrician just not note this down as something to consider replacing in the future? Or does it have to be done now.

Apparantly this would cost approx £400 to replace.. I also wonder that as no rcd protection is potentially dangerous, would the freeholder be responsible for the install?

 

[bernardgreen]

It is a Report on the Condition of the Electrical Installation.

It would include a comment about the type of fuse box

Recommendations about improvements can be added to the report.

 

[seasickstevie]

... would the freeholder be responsible for the install?

Wouldn't normally expect the responsibility of updating the electrics every time the regulations change to fall to the freeholder.
Can't think of a scenario where that would apply.

Perhaps your electrician just doesn't need the work.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I also wonder that as no rcd protection is potentially dangerous,

Electricity is potentially dangerous.

would the freeholder be responsible for the install?

No.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Wouldn't normally expect the responsibility of updating the electrics every time the regulations change to fall to the freeholder.
Can't think of a scenario where that would apply.

Perhaps your electrician just doesn't need the work.

Could this possibly go down as a C3?

If not, what observation code would you expect if there is no RCD protection on the fuse board?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Could this possibly go down as a C3?

Yes.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

So basically it all depends on who you get on the day as one electrician could say C2, while another could say C3 for the same issue..

Perhaps @seasickstevie was on to something when he said that my electrician probably didn't want the work

 

[EFLImpudence]

That is unfortunately the case.

A lot of (most?) electricians are not knowlegeable enough to carry out EICRs.

 

[ericmark]

Most people want "satisfactory" written on the report so they can sell or rent, and it is not really satisfactory without the RCD protection, back in 1998 it was the BS7671:1992, in the BS7671:2001 we saw the first recommendation with RCD's being required for some areas, in BS7671:2008 this extended to nearly all areas, although there is no requirement to alter existing.

The EIRC will test many things, from the ring is actually a ring, to insulation resistance, so it would be a good idea to have one done every 10 years as recommended, it would highlight all faults, and from the results you can decide if or what needs doing.

But wired in 1998 unlikely to be any degrading of system, all it would show is up dates required, so I can see his point, would be a waste of money doing it before the CU change, if your going to change it, it would be better done at the same time as the CU change.

I fitted RCD's in about 1998 in my house, it was unusual then and the RCD's are not in the fuse box but in a separate box, since the fuse box is not type tested it is not a CU, all items under the control of an ordinary person should be type tested, however I have not seen anything in an EICR which highlights the use of non type tested equipment.

 

[John Peterhead]

Called an electrician to give me an EICR

However when he took a look at the fuse box he said that as it doesn't have RCD protection consequently there is no point in going ahead..

Is this correct?

The fuse box is the original fuse box that was installed in my flat in 1998. It is a third floor flat

Could the electrician just not note this down as something to consider replacing in the future? Or does it have to be done now.

Apparantly this would cost approx £400 to replace.. I also wonder that as no rcd protection is potentially dangerous, would the freeholder be responsible for the install?

No that is absolutely rubbish. That would mean half the property in the Uk (maybe more) is no longer safe? Nonsense. It wouldn't be a fail but a recommendation, or at least it was when I used to do these 15 years ago and as far as I am led to believe in the 17th nothing has changed.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

No that is absolutely rubbish. That would mean half the property in the Uk (maybe more) is no longer safe? Nonsense. It wouldn't be a fail but a recommendation, or at least it was when I used to do these 15 years ago and as far as I am led to believe in the 17th nothing has changed.

That's an excellent point.. Thank you!

@EFLImpudence you were spot on.. I called three additional electricians to ask what observation code would be noted on a fuse board without RCD protection

One said C3
While the other Two said C2.. However interestingly, one of the C2 guys said that 'you may just 'scrape by with C3 if you're lucky'

Absolutely hilarious

 

[Adam_151]

Normal rule of thumb is lack of 30mA RCD to a socket outlet for 'general use' i.e. not behind the fridge, and clearly just for the fridge, is that its going to be at least a C3, moving upto a C2 if its likely to be used for outside appliances.

In most domestic properties, most consider all downstairs socket could be used outdoors (although one should take a more pragmatic view, no one is going to trail the lawnmower flex all the wall down the hallway to plug it in, however they might plug it in through a convienient window). With a 3rd floor flat, then unless you consider an extension reel thrown from a window to vacuum the car from likely then it would be a push to apply more than a C3 unless additional risk factors existed - Did all those you posed the question to know the type of property in question?

The problem is that while its clear that the lack of 30mA rcd protection is a non-compliance, there are no hard and fast rules about recommendation codes, onlyn guidelines, and no be fair, some flexability is required, for instance a socket outlet with a broken shutter mechanism might be a C1 at low level in a nursery school, C2 in the computer lab at a university, and C3 in a fire station

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If this is a property to be rented out, and Mr Sparkle is the landlord (seems to be what a few people are guessing), then I see no problem with a C2/C3 being "unsatisfactory" and the resulting EICR not being counted as a "landlord safety certificate" (yes, I know that formally there is no such thing.)

The whole concept of "fail" wrt an EICR is meaningless - there is no such designation, an installation cannot "fail".

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Update:

The electrician came around and he said that he was impressed with the electrics.. They are in good shape

The lack RCD was noted as a C3

Interestingly, the chap said that he'd email me the report. Is this uploaded to the NICEIC website too?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Very good.

No, the report is not uploaded to NICEIC.

Registration with NICEIC, or any other such scheme, is not required to carry out EICRs.
Even certificates for notifiable work are not sent to the schemes - just a general description is recorded - New circuit; Replacement CU etc.