Covid passes to be introduced.

[Mottie]

Vaccinated people can and are spreading Covid just the same as unvaccinated. That is a fact. So what is the benefit of allowing people into a room just because they have a pass to prove vaccination, and denying them entry if they do not?

It's all about encouragement for the greater good.

A different scenario. Why punish a person for driving a car without a licence? A 20 year old unlicensed person could very well drive a car and react quicker than a licensed 80 year old. If you had to suddenly step out in front of a car, who would you expect to stop or swerve round you - the 20 year old unlicensed driver or the licensed 80 year old? Again, it's for the general greater good to 'encourage' all those who want to drive a car to take a test.

We elect a government, they make some rules, we follow them or get punished. Been going on for years.

 

[Mottie]

Back to school you go...

"Lateral flow tests deliver a rapid result, in 30 minutes. They can find positive cases with high levels of virus that are easy to transmit to others, helping to intercept and reduce further infections."

If you have low levels you could get a false negative despite having the 'virus'

Correct, Captain Obvious. Your point being?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

It's all about encouragement for the greater good.

A different scenario. Why punish a person for driving a car without a licence? A 20 year old unlicensed person could very well drive a car and react quicker than a licensed 80 year old. If you had to suddenly step out in front of a car, who would you expect to stop or swerve round you - the 20 year old unlicensed driver or the licensed 80 year old? Again, it's for the general greater good to 'encourage' all those who want to drive a car to take a test.

We elect a government, they make some rules, we follow them or get punished. Been going on for years.

Nice answer Mottie, but I don't absolutely agree with the 20 year comparison to an 80 year old, providing the 80 year is all there with his cough drops The 80 year will likely be much more experienced on the road, be paying more attention to his driving and be much more likely to be ready for someone to step out, plus react with the correct response. Insurance premiums support that view too.

 

[Deleted member 292770]

Nice answer Mottie, but I don't absolutely agree with the 20 year comparison to an 80 year old, providing the 80 year is all there with his cough drops The 80 year will likely be much more experienced on the road, be paying more attention to his driving and be much more likely to be ready for someone to step out, plus react with the correct response. Insurance premiums support that view too.

some people have no concept even of how ridiculous what they say is. Seriously worrying.

 

[Mottie]

Nice answer Mottie, but I don't absolutely agree with the 20 year comparison to an 80 year old, providing the 80 year is all there with his cough drops The 80 year will likely be much more experienced on the road, be paying more attention to his driving and be much more likely to be ready for someone to step out, plus react with the correct response. Insurance premiums support that view too.

It's a wonder we don't see more 80 year old F1 champions then.
Some F1 drivers have not been legally able to drive on the road.
https://www.sportskeeda.com/f1/max-...despite-not-being-old-enough-to-legally-drive

 

[jeds]

I'm not personally in favour of vaccine passports but the purpose of them is to reduce rather than eliminate. The thought process would go something like; a good percentage of vaccinated people entering an event will have avoided covid when compared to the same number of unvaccinated, resulting in less covid swilling about within the event. And all the people (in theory) within the event are vaccinated so even if there is a bit of it about a higher percentage of people within the event will be protected, and will therefore not pick it up, when compared to the same number of unvaccinated. So, the idea is not to stop it - just slow it down.

 

[AngleEyes]

So, you agree with me.

Not at all. Your argument is akin to saying children's playgrounds (to which only children are allowed) are unsafe for children because only children have accidents there.
Or
Crash helmets on motorbikes are dangerous because all motorbike riders that have died were wearing crash helmets.
It's a nonsense basis for an argument.

 

[AngleEyes]

That can't be so. If you look at the figures for infections, a high proportion of those have to be people who are vaccinated, and Covid generally (what ever variant) will have to be spread by vaccinated hosts, otherwise it will just fade out.

Your assertion is nonsense. Have you looked at the figures for those with Covid that have been vaccinated?
If you have looked, please show us where it suggests the proportion for vaccinated against unvaccinated with Covid.

 

[AngleEyes]

How does requiring a pass to get into a venue stop the spread when the people with the pass are just as likely to be spreading the virus?

You've missed out an extremely important part of your question:
How does requiring a pass to get into a venue stop the spread when the people, who are vastly reduced due to the efficacy of the vaccine, with the pass are just as likely to be spreading the virus, if they have it, which is unlikely?
Your question is based on the false assumption that just as many vaccinated people have Covid as the number of unvaccinated. That's a false assumption.

 

[AngleEyes]

Nonsense

Morals are just a reflection of society, and if society decided to change its morals then those become the new morals. There are already vast differences in what certain members of society, cultures or religions deem as "right" and to suggest that one person can be persuaded that their morals are wrong is bizarre.

The accepted morals of society only work on a persuasive basis.
You're confusing morals with laws.

 

[AngleEyes]

You have actually lost me. I can't understand what you are saying from your several posts.

Vaccinated people can and are spreading Covid just the same as unvaccinated. That is a fact.

It's not!
For sure, vaccinated, if they have the virus might spread it. If they have it! The likelihood of them having it is far less.
Also, the likelihood of them spreading it is reduced in two ways, a) they have a less severe form, so they recover quicker, and because they have a less severe form the transmission rate is reduced.
In addition, the services dealing with severe illness and death are not required, which leaves them free to deal with the unvaccinated.

 

[Justin Passing]

You have actually lost me. I can't understand what you are saying from your several posts.

Vaccinated people can and are spreading Covid just the same as unvaccinated. That is a fact.

So what is the benefit of allowing people into a room just because they have a pass to prove vaccination, and denying them entry if they do not?

If you pick a random wannabe partygoer, she's more likely to have covid if she's NonV. Maybe by 3x.
Multiply that by: If she has it, she's more likely to be symptomatic and therefore transmitting, than if she'd been jabbed. Maybe another 2x.
Though,
if she has it and is symptomatic, then yes she'll be spreading it as well whether she's jabbed or not.
And the LFT doesn't care about whether she's jabbed, it'll miss quite a few of both.

So the 6x more dangerous person is the woman with the credit card.
I mean without the jab.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Everyone seems to be in agreement, despite some fatuous reasoning, that people can still catch covid at these pass controlled events and it will be only the vaccinated spreading it.

 

[AngleEyes]

Everyone seems to be in agreement, despite some fatuous reasoning, that people can still catch covid at these pass controlled events and it will be only the vaccinated spreading it.

For sure, you can, but the chances are vastly reduced, and if you do, you're far more unlikely to be severely ill, and even less likely to die.
It's only the fatuous who are ignoring that fact, and trying to make an argument that vaccines are not worth having on a fallacious argument.

 

[Mottie]

What's the alternative - stay at home crying into your handkerchief? Life must go on - but not for the unvaccinated!