Dartford Tunnel Penalty Charge Notice

[blightymam]

Now which of those signs give any indication that the C refers to a toll and not to a Congestion Charge?
Which of those signs give any indication of the charges?

The fact that they're nowhere near central London and that you're driving in a tunnel that was always a toll road? Not to mention a big 'C' as a clue.

If you thought it was congestion charge, did you pay it?

 

[Himaginn]

The fact that they're nowhere near central London and that you're driving in a tunnel that was always a toll road? Not to mention a big 'C' as a clue.

You might think so! While driving in fast, very heavy traffic, I tend to concentrate on my driving, rather than let my mind wonder about what ONE sign meant. You see a sign, you know it (the congestion charge) doesn't apply so you ignore it and dismiss it from your mind, and concentrate on the road ahead.
You might be THAT driver who meanders around wondering what is going on in the world, yet totally unaware of the traffic around you.
Are you one of those that limit your driving to Sunday afternoons as well?

I repeat, the only sign I saw was the one above the tunnel as you enter the tunnel.
No explanation of charges, no indication of where, how, when, how much, or penalties for non payment, just simply a big C, which to most motorists means "Congestion Charge".
There may have been others, as Dan indicated, with no more, or even less, or even no indication at all of a toll charge. These signs may have been obscured by stationary traffic.

BTW, thanks for the images, Dan, they may come in useful for my challenge to the PCN.

 

[Brigadier]

Street View is up to date as of July 2016.
None of those signs are present approaching from the A206, or if they are, we were in such dense traffic approaching the A282 they were all obscured by lorries, buses, etc. We were queuing in that traffic jam for about an hour waiting to join the M25/A282. It was nose to tail, moving about 5 meters each few minutes!
If any of you know how to use the scale on a map, you'll see that the A206 slip onto the A282 is about 750 meters just before entrance to the tunnel.
So all these signs saying 2/4 miles ahead is just nonsense. It does demonstrate that either you don't know your geography as well as you claim, or you clearly haven't read my comments, and you're just trolling.
I think I know which, or more likely both! You keep referring to the bridge. I wasn't on the bridge, I was in the tunnel!
See the difference: BRIDGE v TUNNEL?
Even your pics of signs are for the BRIDGE approach. I was going North, in the tunnel!
Clearly, you don't know the difference between North and South and between BRIDGE and TUNNEL!

The big red and white C is for the Congestion Charge! We were no where near the Congestion Charging zone! Information signs are rectangular!

You can rant and rave and stamp your feet as much as you like, it ain't gonna make any difference. There wasn't a decent information sign on my route!.
Try finding an information sign on the A206 or within 750 meters of the tunnel entrance that has more information than simply a Congestion Charging sign!
There isn't one!

Thanks for the lecture on the highways and byeways DC, but you're the only one who knows little enough to be stung for £70

 

[Himaginn]

I wonder if it had been anyone other than Himagin if you and Corgi would be crowing so much?

Absolutely.

There we go! A confession that blightymam would disagree with me, whatever the argument!
Kinda puts it all into perspective.

 

[Himaginn]

Thanks for the lecture on the highways and byeways DC, but you're the only one who knows little enough to be stung for £70

Apparently not.

Nearly 3.5m fines have been issued to drivers for not paying the Dartford Crossing charge since toll booths were removed, the BBC has found.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-37315621
Now if all those £70 fines were paid that would be £245,000,000
The crossing cost:

The two-lane bore tunnel[39] opened to traffic on 18 November 1963;[3][40] the total project cost was £13 million (now £245 million)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartford_Crossing
So they've recovered the cost of the crossing in the two years of scrapping the booths. Not a bad move, obviously!

 

[blightymam]

There we go! A confession that blightymam would disagree with me, whatever the argument!
Kinda puts it all into perspective.

Oh no, it's not about disagreeing with you, it's about taking the mickey. Big difference!

 

[blightymam]

You might think so! While driving in fast, very heavy traffic, I tend to concentrate on my driving, rather than let my mind wonder about what ONE sign meant. You see a sign, you know it (the congestion charge) doesn't apply so you ignore it and dismiss it from your mind, and concentrate on the road ahead.
You might be THAT driver who meanders around wondering what is going on in the world, yet totally unaware of the traffic around you.
Are you one of those that limit your driving to Sunday afternoons as well?

I repeat, the only sign I saw was the one above the tunnel as you enter the tunnel.
No explanation of charges, no indication of where, how, when, how much, or penalties for non payment, just simply a big C, which to most motorists means "Congestion Charge".
There may have been others, as Dan indicated, with no more, or even less, or even no indication at all of a toll charge. These signs may have been obscured by stationary traffic.

BTW, thanks for the images, Dan, they may come in useful for my challenge to the PCN.

Is that the type of Sunday driver who fails to notice what is around you by failing to notice any signs telling you of a charge? Lol. And I hope you were not driving very fast, as unless they've changed it since the toll change, the Dartford tunnel and it's approach is/was 50mph. I don't call that fast.. but a Sunday, unobservant driver may.

I also find it hard to believe that stationary traffic was to blame for you not seeing every single sign on the approach. But then you were never anyone to admit fault in any kind were you? We could tell that here so not really shocked that you apply the same illusion of grandeur view of yourself in the outside world. Takes a bigger person to take it on the chin. Annoying mistake but you were the one driving, you didn't pay, you got the fine. That said, I hope you do have a successful appeal, I like the little man to win against big money making schemes like this, no matter who the little man is

 

[HawkEye244]

I've been travelling for the last few weeks, and on opening the post tonight for the last few weeks, I found a Dart Charge PCN for 30th August. I'm not challenging it, but what a rip-off!

Having close family just south of the river, I've used the Dartford crossing many times in the past, I just thought it strange that the toll booths had disappeared since the last time I made the crossing. I assumed it had become free for whatever reason. But to find that I now have to pay £72.50 for one crossing is galling!
As it was my first time for using and not paying I would have been allowed 21 days to pay the charge, but as I was away, I wasn't even aware of the charge!

The most galling bit was the traffic, admittedly it was the Bank Holiday weekend, but on the Tuesday afternoon it took us about an hour just to join the traffic to go through the tunnel!

I certainly won't be using the Dartford Crossing in future, especially as the alternatives are easily as convenient, and now I realise, a lot cheaper.
Anyone else fallen foul of this and what was the outcome?


I very rarely use the M6 toll 'cos I think the charges are far too high as well. But at least there are toll booths so you don't get suckered into paying a ridiculous amount.
Although I regularly use the payeage roads on the continent 'cos I think they're worth the outlay, and there's not usually an acceptable alternative.
I think one can drive something like 100 km for about 10 euros in France on the payeage. That compares to about 20 km for about £5 on the M6 toll.

 

[Himaginn]

Is that the type of Sunday driver who fails to notice what is around you by failing to notice any signs telling you of a charge?

When the traffic is like this:

It's easy to understand how the signs were obscured by traffic. Although this is the southbound approach, the approach traffic to the A282 was just like it.
Additionally, from those signs copied by Dan shows, none of them indicated a charge, just a sign indicating Congestion Charging.

And I hope you were not driving very fast, as unless they've changed it since the toll change, the Dartford tunnel and it's approach is/was 50mph. I don't call that fast.. but a Sunday, unobservant driver may.

In very heavy traffic any sensible driver would appreciate it's fast enough.
I've already mentioned that the limit is 50mph, but you never were very good at understanding my comments.

I also find it hard to believe that stationary traffic was to blame for you not seeing every single sign on the approach.

All three of them, by Dan's pics, and I saw one of them for the Congestion Charge.
However, if you've never driven in very heavy traffic, it's understandable that you find it hard to believe that signs can be obscured by stationary traffic.

So I repeat, if you thought that the 'C' meant congestion charge, did you pay it?

Why would I do that if I didn't enter the zone? I see signs for car parking charges along many streets, but if I'm not parking I don't pay them!
I see signs informing me of the M6 toll charges, but if I'm not using the M6 toll, I don't pay it!
I see signs informing me of the admission prices for many places, but if I'm not going in I don't pay them!
It's not rocket science!

This reminds me of an occasion when I was much younger, driving, I think it was in Exeter. I'd stopped, in the evening, at the traffic lights 'cos they were on red and a PC approached the window. He told me I was going the wrong way up a one way street.
Quite a discussion ensued. Me arguing how can I be going the wrong way if I'm stopped at traffic lights waiting for them to turn green, with a line across the lane, and other signs for traffic going in that direction, etc!
He, insisting I was going the wrong way! After a few minutes, he said, with a smile, the road turns into a one-way after a certain time in the evening!
It's two-way all day, but in the evening and overnight it's one-way! Needless to say, he let me go on my way.

 

[motorbiking]

I think there has been enough news and surveys in the press to show that the launch and signage was a bit of a screw up. According to some data, non-payment was 50% higher than expected.

As with badly signed parking the real aim is to get more than 100% revenue. i.e. a large proportion of payments are fines.

 

[blightymam]

It's not rocket science!

Clearly it is to you otherwise you'd not have a fine!

 

[noseall]

Oh no, it's not about disagreeing with you, it's about taking the mickey

Do you think you are any good at taking the mickey?

 

[transam]

Do you think you are any good at taking the mickey?

yep she is

 

[noseall]

yep she is

That's a relief.

 

[transam]

What go's around comes around I say

70 squid should have concentrated on the task in hand ?

mind u may be he was concentrating on the task in hand that's why he missed the signs