misleading opinion, deleted.
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DIY Gas sticky.
- Thread starter JohnHarrison
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Thankfully these days, the number of serious accidents and deaths due to gas appliances are far fewer than they used to be. This is due in no small part to the introduction of the gas safety regulations and the requirement for those who work on gas to be properly trained and registered. Unregistered people working on community projects for no reward may do so for the best of motives but would rightly feel the full force of the law should their actions lead to the injury of death of members of the public.
This forum is so useful to many people because professionals are willing to give freely advice on those topics which the competent diyer should be able to manage themselves. Those same professionals also know that giving out information on safety critical subjects such as gas and unvented water heating could encourage some people to meddle with things which could lead to serious injury or death.
If you live on your own miles from anyone else, I'm quite happy for you to fiddle with whatever you want. Maybe you'll make it into the Darwin awards. If you are risking your family, friends or other innocent parties, then don't expect advice from the contributors to this forum.
This forum is so useful to many people because professionals are willing to give freely advice on those topics which the competent diyer should be able to manage themselves. Those same professionals also know that giving out information on safety critical subjects such as gas and unvented water heating could encourage some people to meddle with things which could lead to serious injury or death.
If you live on your own miles from anyone else, I'm quite happy for you to fiddle with whatever you want. Maybe you'll make it into the Darwin awards. If you are risking your family, friends or other innocent parties, then don't expect advice from the contributors to this forum.
N
Newboy
"No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so."
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Very easy for the prosecutor to prove incompetence, as the only way to demonstrate competence is to be on the gas safe register. Not enough prosecutions are brought for illegal gas work but in many of the cases that are, the defendant has experience in the field due to being previously registered. They are, however, deemed not competent because they are not currently registered. Anyway that is beside the point, a prosecution, successful or not does not bring people back to life.
Now, Mr Burner, it is way past your bed time. We've got your Horlicks ready. Let me tuck you in, the other residents are already asleep.
Yes, I know you are bitter about not being Gas Safe Registered, and I'm sure you are right that the rules are wrong and you knew better. I agree that you were overqualified to be driving a van, but you're retired now. Put it all behind you..
I'm sorry the care home boiler room door is locked, and we can't find the key - we're still looking for it, believe me. The management have received your letter and are considering all the improvements you suggested, just like they did last year.
I know the DIYnot internet forum is the place where your advice is truly appreciated, but it'll still be there tomorrow morning. Your computer must be turned off now.
Nighty night.
And please ring the bell next time; we don't want a repeat of last night, do we?
Yes, I know you are bitter about not being Gas Safe Registered, and I'm sure you are right that the rules are wrong and you knew better. I agree that you were overqualified to be driving a van, but you're retired now. Put it all behind you..
I'm sorry the care home boiler room door is locked, and we can't find the key - we're still looking for it, believe me. The management have received your letter and are considering all the improvements you suggested, just like they did last year.
I know the DIYnot internet forum is the place where your advice is truly appreciated, but it'll still be there tomorrow morning. Your computer must be turned off now.
Nighty night.
And please ring the bell next time; we don't want a repeat of last night, do we?
A Gassafe registered man would rightly feel the full force of the law should their actions lead to the injury of death of members of the public.
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There... I have corrected that for you.
D
Dean744PiN5
Approved Code of Practice
This Code has been approved by the Health and Safety Executive, with the consent of the Secretary of State. It gives practical advice on how to comply with the law. If you follow the advice you will be doing enough to comply with the law in respect of those specific matters on which the Code gives advice. You may use alternative methods to those set out in the Code in order to comply with the law. However, the Code has a special legal status. If you are prosecuted for breach of health and safety law, and it is proved that you did not follow the relevant provisions of the Code, you will need to show that you have complied with the law in some other way or a Court will find you at fault.
as for your co alarm idea for a flue in void
Carbon monoxide (CO) alarms
21 CO alarms are not covered by GSIUR or this ACOP. Although CO alarms are a useful back-up precaution they must not be regarded as a substitute for proper installation and maintenance of gas equipment
Work in relation to a gas fitting
51 For the purposes of these Regulations, ‘work’ includes do-it-yourself activities, work undertaken as a favour for friends and relatives, and work for which there is no expectation of reward or gain, eg voluntary activity for charities. This means that anyone carrying out such work must have the necessary competence, as required by regulation 3(1). However, membership of an HSE approved class of persons (under regulation 3(3)) is required only by businesses carrying out gas fitting work
No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.
The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer, every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in rel setup, read and interpret ation to such work.
(if you are wrking for friends and family they are the employer and you the employee, their property is a place of work)
82 Anyone who does work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel must be competent to do so (whether or not they are required to be a member of an approved class of persons). Therefore, do-it-yourself gas engineers and those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required competence. The level and range of competence should match the full extent of work done, but needs only to be sufficient for and relevant to that work
(competence is proved by acquiring the necessary qualifications , experience and equipment, if you install your own boiler how can you safely check for gas leaks, set up, read and interpret the combustion analysis readings, effectively ensure the flue is sound an correctly fitted which requires an analyser to do so.
If you fail to do these things you have not installed it competently and are therefore in breach of regulations, try explaining that to the judge "sorry i killed my old mum and her neighbours guv, but it's her house therefore i can do what i want, i am competent because i say so, prove me wrong"
I don't think that will hold up somehow.
Competence is a combination of practical skill, training, knowledge and experience to carry out the job in hand safely, and ensuring the installation is left in a safe condition for use. Knowledge must be kept up-to-date with changes in the law, technology and safe working practice.
It's not just bunging a load of pipe together and hanging a white box on the wall, it requires specialist equipment, skills and knowledge whether you are a professional or diy'er,
how can you test the safety devices?
how can test the combustion?
how can you test for leaks?
how can you test operating and working pressures?
how can you test the effectiveness of a flue?
all this needs doing to prove the installation is safe therefore proving competence, diy or not.
This Code has been approved by the Health and Safety Executive, with the consent of the Secretary of State. It gives practical advice on how to comply with the law. If you follow the advice you will be doing enough to comply with the law in respect of those specific matters on which the Code gives advice. You may use alternative methods to those set out in the Code in order to comply with the law. However, the Code has a special legal status. If you are prosecuted for breach of health and safety law, and it is proved that you did not follow the relevant provisions of the Code, you will need to show that you have complied with the law in some other way or a Court will find you at fault.
as for your co alarm idea for a flue in void
Carbon monoxide (CO) alarms
21 CO alarms are not covered by GSIUR or this ACOP. Although CO alarms are a useful back-up precaution they must not be regarded as a substitute for proper installation and maintenance of gas equipment
Work in relation to a gas fitting
51 For the purposes of these Regulations, ‘work’ includes do-it-yourself activities, work undertaken as a favour for friends and relatives, and work for which there is no expectation of reward or gain, eg voluntary activity for charities. This means that anyone carrying out such work must have the necessary competence, as required by regulation 3(1). However, membership of an HSE approved class of persons (under regulation 3(3)) is required only by businesses carrying out gas fitting work
No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.
The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer, every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in rel setup, read and interpret ation to such work.
(if you are wrking for friends and family they are the employer and you the employee, their property is a place of work)
82 Anyone who does work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel must be competent to do so (whether or not they are required to be a member of an approved class of persons). Therefore, do-it-yourself gas engineers and those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required competence. The level and range of competence should match the full extent of work done, but needs only to be sufficient for and relevant to that work
(competence is proved by acquiring the necessary qualifications , experience and equipment, if you install your own boiler how can you safely check for gas leaks, set up, read and interpret the combustion analysis readings, effectively ensure the flue is sound an correctly fitted which requires an analyser to do so.
If you fail to do these things you have not installed it competently and are therefore in breach of regulations, try explaining that to the judge "sorry i killed my old mum and her neighbours guv, but it's her house therefore i can do what i want, i am competent because i say so, prove me wrong"
I don't think that will hold up somehow.
Competence is a combination of practical skill, training, knowledge and experience to carry out the job in hand safely, and ensuring the installation is left in a safe condition for use. Knowledge must be kept up-to-date with changes in the law, technology and safe working practice.
It's not just bunging a load of pipe together and hanging a white box on the wall, it requires specialist equipment, skills and knowledge whether you are a professional or diy'er,
how can you test the safety devices?
how can test the combustion?
how can you test for leaks?
how can you test operating and working pressures?
how can you test the effectiveness of a flue?
all this needs doing to prove the installation is safe therefore proving competence, diy or not.
How do you prove competence?
D
Dean744PiN5
mr twart here seem's to be unable to answer that question through all the dribble, but i should imagine his thinking is "i didnt kill anyone so it must be A ok 
"
nob
"nob
D
Dean744PiN5
it still doesnt tell us how YOU prove competence when you have worked on a gas supply, keeping on saying your competent doesn't actually prove it.
D
Dean744PiN5
you like missing out the details to suit you, you still have to comply with regulations, registration to a body might not be mandatory for diy, adherence to the regulations is, but you crack on mate, what a sad little life you must lead.
Eeerrrr, competence is your ability to do something .
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This nutter has been given too much oxygen already. He can interpret the law however he likes and will no doubt continue to do so. It is, however, correct for a site such as this to discourage diy gas work and it would be grossly irresponsible for advice to be given which could result in potentially dangerous situations. If you disagree with the forum rules or the information given you have every right to go elsewhere and would be doing everyone a favour if you did.
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