DIY gas thread - I'm confused

[denso13]

I would prefer if you said 'go to your next door neighbor and checkout the hob I fitted there'

That has been discussed ad nauseum throughout this thread. I don't think competence is achieved by not blowing anyone up. I really don't think you would rather use someone who can't demonstrate their competence against someone who can.

 

[Madrab]

But in many posts on this forum gas safe guys have stated that it’s illegal for a householder to so much as remove an outer panel from a boiler if he is not gas safe registered

Not so much illegal more so ill advised and potentially very dangerous, even then it's just when the boiler case forms part of the combustion space seal. If it is just decorative then anyone can safely remove that and perform other (wet) work on the boiler and I believe that is also pointed out in numerous threads.

In general I believe that DIY gas (in this case DIY is doing work on your own system) is a really grey area when it comes to the law and it seems that as long as someone isn't killed or makes money out of it (it isn't DIY then) then they don't enforce it, it seems because it could be really hard to prove and enforce. Again I believe that is down to lack of resource and funding.

Competence, when it comes to regulations and in the eyes of the law, can only be proven by examination and certification ... that isn't a grey area and is law whether it's agreeable or not. Whether that makes the person safe or not is another story but that can be true right across any professional where legislation deems that examination and certification is required.

 

[fixitflav]

It isn't, but you need to be able to prove you are competent to do so, that is what the law says. How would you do that?

I don't see how the situation would arise. The HSE will only be involved if something happens which draws their attention. I don't think they do routine checks, maybe GSR people would say they should! But if something nasty has happened there's a good chance it's down to the DIYer. That's what I was getting at in my question. I suppose the onus would be on him to show it wasn't his fault.
BTW congrats on your qualifications, I'm impressed

 

[fixitflav]

Not so much illegal more so ill advised and potentially very dangerous, even then it's just when the boiler case forms part of the combustion space seal. If it is just decorative then anyone can safely remove that and perform other (wet) work on the boiler and I believe that is also pointed out in numerous threads.

In general I believe that DIY gas (in this case DIY is doing work on your own system) is a really grey area when it comes to the law and it seems that as long as someone isn't killed or makes money out of it (it isn't DIY then) then they don't enforce it, it seems because it could be really hard to prove and enforce. Again I believe that is down to lack of resource and funding.

Competence, when it comes to regulations and in the eyes of the law, can only be proven by examination and certification ... that isn't a grey area and is law whether it's agreeable or not. Whether that makes the person safe or not is another story but that can be true right across any professional where legislation deems that examination and certification is required.

Yes, I wouldn't disagree with most of that. Nobody wants to encourage anyone to tackle a job they're not confident they can do. Of course confidence doesn't necessarily equal competence!

 

[denso13]

I suppose the onus would be on him to show it wasn't his fault

The law says anyone must be competent to work on anything gas related. You can say that this doesn't matter as there are no consequences because, unless you blow your house up, you won't get caught.

I get that, nevertheless, if you are not competent then DIY gas work is illegal.

 

[denso13]

Not so much illegal

I'd go further Rob, and apologies if I am flogging a dead horse here, but if you can't prove you are competent then it is very much illegal when the boiler case forms part of the combustion space seal.

 

[ericmark]

I'd go further Rob, and apologies if I am flogging a dead horse here, but if you can't prove you are competent then it is very much illegal when the boiler case forms part of the combustion space seal.

I think is should be illegal, but if the law says you must inspect and test electrical connections when doing an EICR and you can only access the connections by removing the panel, then it should be law for it to say on the panel this panel is ExII or other markings and should not be removed unless XYZ, if it does not clearly state this on the panel then I as an EICR inspector have no excuse for not removing it, by the new landlord laws to comply with law I must remove and inspect. If I don't I am breaking the law.

 

[fixitflav]

I get that, nevertheless, if you are not competent then DIY gas work is illegal.

I think we're going round in circles with the definition of competent. One can (I assume) be competent without having done a course and got the paperwork. If something has gone wrong and the HSE are on the case there's a good chance a DIYer would be shown to be incompetent (unless he could blame it on a faulty component, which could have happened to anybody).

 

[denso13]

have no excuse for not removing it

Decorative panels with no fixings are ok but those with fixings which need unscrewed tend to be the problematic ones. Would it be so hard to call the manufacturers helpline to check?

 

[denso13]

I think we're going round in circles with the definition of competent. One can (I assume) be competent without having done a course and got the paperwork.

With respect, there in no need to assume, it is written down in black and white.

 

[ericmark]

Decorative panels with no fixings are ok but those with fixings which need unscrewed tend to be the problematic ones. Would it be so hard to call the manufacturers helpline to check?

In a word yes, clearly the electrical regulations mean you must have a tool or key to remove panel, and clearly one does get to know which panels are for decoration and which are connected with the balanced flue sealing, and if you can access the installation instructions then clearly one would look, this

is clearly some thing we need to know. It the boiler requires at type A then we need to ensure type A is fitted not type AC so if available we would glance at the installation manual, however that is only possible if the installation manual has been left with the boiler, here in Wales hard enough to get mobile coverage never mind internet, and clearly there should be a Corgi only or Gas Safe only sticker on the boiler, and if there is it can be given a code FI and the customer told you need the boiler checking by a gas safe guy or a Code LIM and put on report all items marked Gas Safe only are outside of this inspection.

However if some gas safe guy has failed to put a sticker on the boiler we must assume you don't need to be gas safe to remove cover, and on most it is clear did not need to be gas safe as one can see some where some gaping hole, clearly if gas proof then gas proof glands are used, and it will not be supplied with twin and earth etc. So in the main it is clear when the cover is forming a seal.

Before the new landlord law in England the EICR was only for the installation, electrical equipment be it fixed or portable was covered by the inspection and testing of in service electrical equipment, so EICR covered lights but not the bulb, and wiring, and overloads etc, but not the extractor fan, immersion heater, built in oven, etc. And in the main built in equipment was covered by some maintenance contract, be it freezer or oven or boiler, so up to now the boiler wiring stopped at the socket or FCU, but now the new law says any fixed electrical equipment should come under the EICR, I think totally wrong, but not up to me, new law says we must inspect.

 

[denso13]

new law says we must inspect

Would you disconnect and remove a gas fire to check the electrical connections at a back boiler? I presume you would if you must inspect it?

 

[ericmark]

Since a new law, I have not needed to, and if there is a clear label saying Gas Safe people only to remove this panel then the only question is Code FI or Code LIM, and clearly we can use some common sense, if the installation looks good then likely would take a chance, however not sure if good or bad not taking cover off gas fire, but my house and father-in-laws house next door but one, when we had the fires checked we found a hole large enough to put whole hand into the flue where back plate not sealed to chimney breast, and the gas safe man sealed with gaffa tape which pealed off as soon as it got hot, so may be removing panels is a good thing then we see these errors.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Not so much illegal more so ill advised and potentially very dangerous, even then it's just when the boiler case forms part of the combustion space seal. If it is just decorative then anyone can safely remove that and perform other (wet) work on the boiler and I believe that is also pointed out in numerous threads.

In general I believe that DIY gas (in this case DIY is doing work on your own system) is a really grey area when it comes to the law and it seems that as long as someone isn't killed or makes money out of it (it isn't DIY then) then they don't enforce it, it seems because it could be really hard to prove and enforce. Again I believe that is down to lack of resource and funding.

Competence, when it comes to regulations and in the eyes of the law, can only be proven by examination and certification ... that isn't a grey area and is law whether it's agreeable or not. Whether that makes the person safe or not is another story but that can be true right across any professional where legislation deems that examination and certification is required.

I agree and can accept all of that.

 

[denso13]

I agree and can accept all of that.

At 1:00 change Bond for "the law"....