If it was true that the co-pilot had to input a code to deny access to the pilot, this is a conscious act. In all probability, suicide then.
Flight 4U 9525
- Thread starter securespark
- Start date
If it was true that the co-pilot had to input a code to deny access to the pilot, this is a conscious act. In all probability, suicide then.
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I don't know how it works but:
Would that not be done to prevent hi-jacking when the pilot goes for a pee?
Would that not be done to prevent hi-jacking when the pilot goes for a pee?
From what I've read there was a toggle switch in the cockpit which had to be operated to override the entry code as the pilot was trying to re enter. That would deny anyone with the code access for 5 minutes I think, then it could be done again. So, yes, a conscious operation.
Yes. But no-one thought that the pilot himself might be the problem.
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Don't forget a Hijacker if he is lucky to have made through security check in the first place, can hold other passengers as hostages and demand that the pilot flew to another destination, obviously they cannot force a pilot to dive the plane into a building, unless they first overcome the pilot and other flight attendants, so as was the case of a 9/11 where pilots were overcome and the suicide hijackers then rammed that plane into WTC, however, ordinary hijacking where hijackers demand certain conditions like release of prisoners, or be flown to a rouge state, where they may be let go, they can harm passengers in other ways like stabbings etc, where they do not need to gain access to cockpit.
What happened to those plain clothes guards with guns who were deployed after 9/11 who could have used his weapon to break down the door lock with his gun.
In 2005 I flew to USA, and security check at Heathrow was lame, I smoke, so I had a gas lighter, and emptied my pockets into a tray, but they did not see it or detect it and I boarded the plane with my cigarette lighter all the way and first thing I did when I came out of Dallas Airport was to light up a cigarette! , but whilst we were in the waiting room before boarding the plane at Heathrow, I found a gas lighter someone had left behind on the carpeted floor, I picked it up and innocently started to play around with it, not igniting it or anything, just twisting and turning and tossing in my hand, and an Air steward saw that and immediately confiscated it and took it away without asking how did I manage to get past security check, then as I sat in the plane, I realised I had left my mobile phone behind on the Xray machine that scans for items, and there were only a few more minutes for the plane to take off, so i asked a Steward if I could shoot back to the boarding area to retrieve my mobile, not so sure as I can't remember now if they allowed me to go back or did someone retrieve.
Airport security is not upto its job. Sadly if the price of life is high, then they should employ more eyes and ears and machines and perhaps two security checks in case first one misses out an item.
Funnily, when you land at an Airport and are going through Green light Nothing to declare, you are randomly stopped and rigorously checked in case you have drugs on you, weapons, banned substances and food, animals and so on, they even go to lengths of Xraying people for swallowed drugs and will go to any lengths to retrieve those even if it takes days to pass through in their special loos! As seen on TV.
What happened to those plain clothes guards with guns who were deployed after 9/11 who could have used his weapon to break down the door lock with his gun.
In 2005 I flew to USA, and security check at Heathrow was lame, I smoke, so I had a gas lighter, and emptied my pockets into a tray, but they did not see it or detect it and I boarded the plane with my cigarette lighter all the way and first thing I did when I came out of Dallas Airport was to light up a cigarette! , but whilst we were in the waiting room before boarding the plane at Heathrow, I found a gas lighter someone had left behind on the carpeted floor, I picked it up and innocently started to play around with it, not igniting it or anything, just twisting and turning and tossing in my hand, and an Air steward saw that and immediately confiscated it and took it away without asking how did I manage to get past security check, then as I sat in the plane, I realised I had left my mobile phone behind on the Xray machine that scans for items, and there were only a few more minutes for the plane to take off, so i asked a Steward if I could shoot back to the boarding area to retrieve my mobile, not so sure as I can't remember now if they allowed me to go back or did someone retrieve.
Airport security is not upto its job. Sadly if the price of life is high, then they should employ more eyes and ears and machines and perhaps two security checks in case first one misses out an item.
Funnily, when you land at an Airport and are going through Green light Nothing to declare, you are randomly stopped and rigorously checked in case you have drugs on you, weapons, banned substances and food, animals and so on, they even go to lengths of Xraying people for swallowed drugs and will go to any lengths to retrieve those even if it takes days to pass through in their special loos! As seen on TV.
Yeah right,, Part of a customs officer's job is to spot suspected drug mules, people coming on holiday with no intention of going back. They also act on tip offs from customs agents at airports people have left from.
For instance, if you go on holiday to Tenerife, or the Canary islands and decide to bring back thousands of cheap cigarettes, ,,, chances are , your luggage has already been scanned at your departure airport on the way back. Customs agents there, then phone customs at the destination airport with all the details of who's luggage is suspect. You arrive back home and go through the green channel and get pulled. Nothing random about it .
Once I had to fly to Paris to do a repair job on a electrical panel we supplied, and my boss said I could borrow another guy from the office who spoke a bit of French and since I didn't know a word of French, he could act as an interpreter if I might come unstuck, so we both flew and landed safely in Paris, got on with our job, this office guy could barely speak French so was a complete waste of time and money, in the end they understood English better than his poor French!
Any way call him Bob, name changed for obvious reason, I finished repairs and were ready to fly back, we had 2 hours to kill, so sitting in the lounge I asked Bob if he fancied a drink, and he replied yes why not and he said he would go and get it, so I stayed by the lounge chair with all my electrical and electronic equipment and tools, 10 minutes gone and he is not back, I am wondering what happened to him, then I saw him coming back empty hands hugely disappointing, no drinks in his hands, I asked Bob, where is the bloody beer?
He replied the French bar staff wouldn't understand him as he tried to buy two lots of 150 centi liters of beer! poor sods were so confused never had anyone asked for 150 Cl of beer before, so they couldn't give him any, Bob thought he would better ask the French barman in centi liters as they wouldn't know what a pint of beer is!
So I got up, and asked Bob to give me the money and I will go and get it, I got to the bar and asked for " two beers please " and there they were, paid and came back with a big grin on my face, and teased Bob what a prat he is and since he was especially sent with me on my Boss's insistence that take him as he speaks French!
Any ways, whilst we were at the Lounge, I asked Bob if I could use his Duty Free allowance, and purchased 200 B&H, and used my allowance and bought another 200, then I got a bit greedy and bought 400 more, so we were 400 cigarettes over the limit, and as he was dressed up neatly with a suit and a tie, whilst I wore a T-shirt and a pair of jeans, with my well worn out leather jacket, and I looked a druggy!
So I suggested to Bob that if he carried my extra 400 cigarettes in his brief case, and I will carry my duty free bag as well as all the tool kit, an oscilloscope strapped on my shoulder, and a few more bits in spares, I made myself look a real suspect, and asked Bob to let me walk ahead of him and draw their attention towards me and so they would stop me the dodgy looking guy whilst Bob in his office suit would be least suspected and they wouldn't even look at him.
However, I was completely wrong, I purposely tried to eye ball the customs officers to pull me and engage with me to divert them from stopping bob, they did not even look at me, and so I continued walking and Bob was 10 strides behind, and when turned around I could not believe they had stopped him!
But i promised Bob that should he be very unfortunate and get pulled over, I will own those extra cigarettes and pay any fines or duty, so I got out in the Arrival lounge, now waiting for Bob, 5 minutes later two Customs officer holding Bob by his Arms escorting him towards me, as Bob pointing them to me where I was waiting for him.
So I stepped forward and asked Customs Officer, is there any problem sir, and they said yes, "Are these your cigarettes" and I replied yes Sir, I couldn't carry them so I gave it to Bob to carry them for me, and they replied I better come in then,
So went back in with them, they charged me VAT on those extra 400 duty free cigarettes, and let me go with a warning for failing to declare.
I saved nothing on the extra 400 cigarettes, as I had to pay £40.00 in duty, so in the end I saved nothing as the cost after paying the Duty was the same as I would have paid in a shop in UK. I was gutted!
Then came the good bit, as we were heading for the car park, at Stanstead air port, we took a wrong path, and ended up having to climb down a steep embankment, we should have used a tunnel from the arrival lounge, so as we got down to the car park, it was dark now, around 8pm, car park was deserted, just a few cars, hardly any people, i noticed a duty free bag someone left in one of the parking bays and forgot to put it in his boot, so I saw it first and told Bob, look what I am seeing, and Bob looked and said what is it, so when Bob realised it was a duty free bag, he started to rush towards it, and I shouted to Bob stop Bob, it could be a bomb, and he stopped and I told Bob let me deal with it Bob as I would know how to diffuse a bomb! (jokingly) but I knew it wouldn't be a bomb, I just did not want Bob to claim the duty free goodies in that bag!
So as I got to the bag, I was pleasantly rewarded with 200 B&H ! that made my day, what I paid extra to those Customs Officers, I got my money back and a job well done in Paris!
Any way call him Bob, name changed for obvious reason, I finished repairs and were ready to fly back, we had 2 hours to kill, so sitting in the lounge I asked Bob if he fancied a drink, and he replied yes why not and he said he would go and get it, so I stayed by the lounge chair with all my electrical and electronic equipment and tools, 10 minutes gone and he is not back, I am wondering what happened to him, then I saw him coming back empty hands hugely disappointing, no drinks in his hands, I asked Bob, where is the bloody beer?
He replied the French bar staff wouldn't understand him as he tried to buy two lots of 150 centi liters of beer! poor sods were so confused never had anyone asked for 150 Cl of beer before, so they couldn't give him any, Bob thought he would better ask the French barman in centi liters as they wouldn't know what a pint of beer is!
So I got up, and asked Bob to give me the money and I will go and get it, I got to the bar and asked for " two beers please " and there they were, paid and came back with a big grin on my face, and teased Bob what a prat he is and since he was especially sent with me on my Boss's insistence that take him as he speaks French!
Any ways, whilst we were at the Lounge, I asked Bob if I could use his Duty Free allowance, and purchased 200 B&H, and used my allowance and bought another 200, then I got a bit greedy and bought 400 more, so we were 400 cigarettes over the limit, and as he was dressed up neatly with a suit and a tie, whilst I wore a T-shirt and a pair of jeans, with my well worn out leather jacket, and I looked a druggy!
So I suggested to Bob that if he carried my extra 400 cigarettes in his brief case, and I will carry my duty free bag as well as all the tool kit, an oscilloscope strapped on my shoulder, and a few more bits in spares, I made myself look a real suspect, and asked Bob to let me walk ahead of him and draw their attention towards me and so they would stop me the dodgy looking guy whilst Bob in his office suit would be least suspected and they wouldn't even look at him.
However, I was completely wrong, I purposely tried to eye ball the customs officers to pull me and engage with me to divert them from stopping bob, they did not even look at me, and so I continued walking and Bob was 10 strides behind, and when turned around I could not believe they had stopped him!
But i promised Bob that should he be very unfortunate and get pulled over, I will own those extra cigarettes and pay any fines or duty, so I got out in the Arrival lounge, now waiting for Bob, 5 minutes later two Customs officer holding Bob by his Arms escorting him towards me, as Bob pointing them to me where I was waiting for him.
So I stepped forward and asked Customs Officer, is there any problem sir, and they said yes, "Are these your cigarettes" and I replied yes Sir, I couldn't carry them so I gave it to Bob to carry them for me, and they replied I better come in then,
So went back in with them, they charged me VAT on those extra 400 duty free cigarettes, and let me go with a warning for failing to declare.
I saved nothing on the extra 400 cigarettes, as I had to pay £40.00 in duty, so in the end I saved nothing as the cost after paying the Duty was the same as I would have paid in a shop in UK. I was gutted!
Then came the good bit, as we were heading for the car park, at Stanstead air port, we took a wrong path, and ended up having to climb down a steep embankment, we should have used a tunnel from the arrival lounge, so as we got down to the car park, it was dark now, around 8pm, car park was deserted, just a few cars, hardly any people, i noticed a duty free bag someone left in one of the parking bays and forgot to put it in his boot, so I saw it first and told Bob, look what I am seeing, and Bob looked and said what is it, so when Bob realised it was a duty free bag, he started to rush towards it, and I shouted to Bob stop Bob, it could be a bomb, and he stopped and I told Bob let me deal with it Bob as I would know how to diffuse a bomb! (jokingly) but I knew it wouldn't be a bomb, I just did not want Bob to claim the duty free goodies in that bag!
So as I got to the bag, I was pleasantly rewarded with 200 B&H ! that made my day, what I paid extra to those Customs Officers, I got my money back and a job well done in Paris!
Every cloud eh?
I'm sick of your optimismEvery cloud eh?
I prefer reminding people that every silver lining has a cloud B'ah, humbug 
What about clouds of cigarette smoke ?
goes up with smoke doesn't it
goes up with smoke doesn't it
Bob is still not sure how to order a pint of beer in French!
Bob is still not sure how to order a pint of beer in French!
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So am I right in saying that this guy was found to have been searching on the internet how cockpit doors work, and what is behind this so called and possibly truly infallible technology, so if this was the case and one can access sensitive information on the net, does that not mean potential hijackers can also access this information and be better equipped with the knowledge how it could possibly be overcome,
let us face it, nothing is fallible is there? May be perhaps Captain could have tried other methods to break the door, such as any heavy object as many passengers carry a fair amount of strange things which may be allowed as a unchecked luggage, like heavy cameras. pods, computers, and I am sure there must be hundreds of other objects within the plane such as a fire extinguishers that could have been used to ram the door lock, anything to save the plane and the lives. Improvisation is what it is called.
let us face it, nothing is fallible is there? May be perhaps Captain could have tried other methods to break the door, such as any heavy object as many passengers carry a fair amount of strange things which may be allowed as a unchecked luggage, like heavy cameras. pods, computers, and I am sure there must be hundreds of other objects within the plane such as a fire extinguishers that could have been used to ram the door lock, anything to save the plane and the lives. Improvisation is what it is called.
You've clearly never tried to force a decent door, have you Mike?
Even with a sledgehammer or crowbar, a decent door takes some shifting. Otherwise, it wouldn't be much of a door, would it?
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