I think you're putting the Leave campaign under the microscope, so in fairness you should do the same to the Remain campaign of greatly exaggerated claims of disaster and calamity if we left. Don't forget the Remain campaign used threats of a swingeing budget if we dared to leave and even wheeled out Obama to say we would be at the back of the queue in future dealings with the US. The people realised that they had to sort the truth from the exaggerations, spin and invented stats on BOTH sides of the campaign. Voters knew they were dealing with politicians, after all. They also realised that they were dealing with politicians who can be relied upon to put their arguments over with facts distorted to show themselves in the best light possible. In the end, the people saw through the tales of impending doom and threats from the Remain side and made the right decision.
For All Those Who Claim We are Leaving The EU, A Spanner In The Works
- Thread starter securespark
- Start date
I think you're putting the Leave campaign under the microscope, so in fairness you should do the same to the Remain campaign of greatly exaggerated claims of disaster and calamity if we left. Don't forget the Remain campaign used threats of a swingeing budget if we dared to leave and even wheeled out Obama to say we would be at the back of the queue in future dealings with the US. The people realised that they had to sort the truth from the exaggerations, spin and invented stats on BOTH sides of the campaign. Voters knew they were dealing with politicians, after all. They also realised that they were dealing with politicians who can be relied upon to put their arguments over with facts distorted to show themselves in the best light possible. In the end, the people saw through the tales of impending doom and threats from the Remain side and made the right decision.
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That's how it works. Just like a general election. The winning side's manifesto is examined to see if they're delivering on their promises.
The swingeing budget is yet to come. It is on its way, the Chancellor told us so:
It's also prudent to wait for the Tory leader contest to identify a new PM, who will in turn identify who will be Chancellor who will decide the 'swingeing budget'.
I don't suppose you'd be too happy if you just took on an important high-flying role to find that your predecessor had determined the immediate way forward just a few days prior to you taking office.
The trade deals are yet to be attempted. Thus it's too early to judge.
Some of the other warnings are already coming true.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/684016/george-osborne-eu-spending-cuts-budget
Clearly a false statement: China, Australia, USA, etc etc have "access to the single market", with no obligation to allow "free movement of people"......
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I suppose you think Norway's contribution for access, about the same per head as ours, is paid on a whim?
I've been got access to the Jewel House in the Tower of London, provided I queue up, pay for a ticket, wait to be admitted and they don't decide to shut the doors early.
What is the unique characteristic of the single market that no other trade group has?
I've been got access to the Jewel House in the Tower of London, provided I queue up, pay for a ticket, wait to be admitted and they don't decide to shut the doors early.
What is the unique characteristic of the single market that no other trade group has?
D
Deleted member 63160
Your country has to keep paying in to prop up the failing economies of other members?
I'll give you a clue.
If you manufacture a widget in the UK which meets UK standards, and you pack it in a way that meets UK standards, and you meet UK laws on environmental protection, so if is a fully compliant UK widget, what additional regulations do you have to comply with if you want to export a truckload to Germany? And how are they different from the regulations you have to comply with if you want to export it to Holland?
Next, decide to export your widgets to Peru. Whose standards must they comply with? What about China? Can you speak Chinese and even read their regulations? What if your widgets arrive, and China has imposed a rule that all widgets must be packed in bio-degradeable rice paper?
What tariffs do you have to pay? What do the import documents look like?
Which market can you cope with, and which is impractical for you?
Do you even know what "single market" means?
If you manufacture a widget in the UK which meets UK standards, and you pack it in a way that meets UK standards, and you meet UK laws on environmental protection, so if is a fully compliant UK widget, what additional regulations do you have to comply with if you want to export a truckload to Germany? And how are they different from the regulations you have to comply with if you want to export it to Holland?
Next, decide to export your widgets to Peru. Whose standards must they comply with? What about China? Can you speak Chinese and even read their regulations? What if your widgets arrive, and China has imposed a rule that all widgets must be packed in bio-degradeable rice paper?
What tariffs do you have to pay? What do the import documents look like?
Which market can you cope with, and which is impractical for you?
Do you even know what "single market" means?
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And?
"No acess to the single market without free movement of people" is clearly a false statement.
D
Deleted member 63160
My mates firm has been exporting machine knives to China for years. He says it's a doddle. English is commonly spoken. In fact a lot of them give themselves English spoken names as there own can be hard to pronounce. One of his contacts calls herself Cinderella 
She thinks it's a well known western name. Spose it is.
"Single market"???? Is that like tinder??
She thinks it's a well known western name. Spose it is."Single market"???? Is that like tinder??
Forget about all these arguments, whose fault it was, who was lied and who was not, let us have another referendum but this time not for leaving the EU or Remaining with them, but a New one for Joining or not Joining the EU.
This one would clear all misunderstanding.
This one would clear all misunderstanding.
So you and all other Remainers only voted that way because of the Remain campaign slogans, not based on weird ideas of your own?
Still no idea what point you're trying to make.
"erect barriers against imported steel" is the straw man I was referring to. I don't remember vote Leave demanding we ban foreign steel? In fact I don't remember steel being a big feature of the campaign.
The difference is this: outside of the EU, if someone makes washing machines to sell into the EU they must comply with EU regs, so they buy EU-compliant motors from a coil winder in Sheffield. Hence the coil winder in Sheffield is not making EU-compliant motors because he is obliged to by the EU, he's simply making them to satify his customer's request. If a different customer asks for motors compliant with American, Javanese, or domestic regs, he makes them accordingly. So 94% of industry does not have to comply with EU rules, it only has to comply with its customers requests.
So we're agreed it's not an EU issue. The point is, we can maintain farming subsidies if we want to, outside the EU, so it's not a straw man.
Ah, I see what you mean. Did the Leave campaign promise to keep the right to live and work abroad, or merely the ability to? (Honest question)
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If you look at the link, you'll see that it refers to the UK's access to the single market. It does not refer to any deal with China, Australia, USA, etc, etc.
You are being obtuse! Were you aware of the number of undecided voters? How do you think they reached their decision? Toss of a coin, perhaps?
You are being obtuse. Rather than engage in debate you're pretending that Boris never campaigned on the issue of EU Fishing Policies.
Perhaps you should have taken more notice of the voters up north.
All the contributory products must comply with EU rules.
So if I make motors for vacuums which are to be exported to EU, those motors must also comply, and the rules for working, and the rules for packaging, etc. If motor manufacturer buy brushes for those motors the brushes have to comply as well. If the brush manufacturer buys his components.......ad infinitum.
It's a nonsense to have half of the workforce working on EU working regulations, and the other half working to non-EU compliant working regulations. We'd have to organise a two-tier pay system as well.
Your argument is that it's not a strawman! That's fine. I'm happy with that. It's the dubious reasons for why it's not a strawman that I disagree with.
They promised free movement of UK citizens to EU but limits on EU citizens access to UK. They said that current UK citizens in EU would not be affected. They're in no position to decide. They said that current EU citizens in UK could continue. It's not yet been discussed, never mind decided.
It was bare-faced lies without the authority to decide.
Sure some of us realised it was bare-faced lies and voted accordingly.
Sadly many undecided voters accepted the 'slogans' as probable outcomes.
No, I just don't see how that relates to "keep foreign fishing boats out of water near our coast". We can let British fisherman catch more fish, that's not a straw man, but keeping 'foreign fishing boats out' is not something I remember being raised. Presumably we could continue to allow foreign boats to come within 12 miles of our shore (or whatever the figure is), or ask them not to.
Production lines don't really work like that, as you well know. You can make single components that satisfy most if not all world regulations. They tend not to differ very much, and become fewer and more generalisd as you drill down to component level. It also doesn't change the fact that it allows domestic manufacturers to satisfy their customers' individual needs without needing to think about EU rules themselves, unless their own customers happen to require it.
Hmm, are you sure these were generally agreed campaign 'policies' and not just ideas various individual proponents came up with at different times? Apart from Boris and Gove, who qualified as 'official' Vote Leave spokesmen?
What Brigadier was pointing out is that you need to keep the distinction: "no freedom of movement = no tariff-free access to the single market".
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