Gas fire and gas cooker in same room?

[greengoddess]

Game set and match to the greengoddess, if you do eventually decide to DIY be sure to fit an isolating gas valve adjacent cooker and face the bayonet socket to take flexible hose downwards. Can't help with pipe sizing but even most domestic boilers I come by, small and not so small, old and not so old, seem only to be fed by 15mm pipework [ though the minimum should be 22mm].I doubt if your gas cooker and fire combined amount to KW/ BTU of even a small boiler but if 15mm pipe is feeding your boiler as well as the gas fire and intended cooker you may be in the manure business.

Many thanks Jim, your kind advice is most appreciated.

I am aware that a 15mm pipe cannot be expected to supply a boiler, fire and cooker safely. I have 22mm pipe running from the meter to the boiler. Halfway down the 10meter run of 22mm it tees off into a 4 meter run of 15mm pipe to the fire. I intended teeing into this 15mm pipe at about the halfway mark to provide gas to the cooker. I know 15m of 22mm pipe gives approximately 3.5m³/h of gas flow but I am not sure how that correlates with the piping I have in situ.

 

[Agile]

There you go! You are appreciative of advice apparently given by someone who is an electrician and not gas trained or registered unlike most of the rest of the poeple who have posted here.

We are not allowed to give detailed advice on how to do gas work. But we can give generala advice like " any gas installation work must be done by somebody who is gas registered and who can calculate pipe sizes and ventilation requirements and give you a gas safety certificate if required".

Tony

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

Hey GreenGobess, OAP robbers, what a cheek , I show no discrimination towards anyone, I rob anyone of any age creed or colour, lets not forget as a bonus I **** in tanks as well

 

[greengoddess]

There you go! You are appreciative of advice apparently given by someone who is an electrician and not gas trained or registered unlike most of the rest of the poeple who have posted here.

I appreciated the advice, time and effort given by Jim. I didn't say I was going to directly act on his advice which is exactly why I elaborated on the information I require about pipe sizing and flow rates. Just because he is one of the few who genuinely seemed interested in helping me doesn't mean I am going to rush out and do exactly what he says.

any gas installation work must be done by somebody who is gas registered and who can calculate pipe sizes and ventilation requirements and give you a gas safety certificate if required".

Tony

There you go again with your misleading claptrap. This may fool the majority of people but it doesn't fool me. How many more times do I need to state that gas installation DOES NOT need to be done by someone who is gas registered? It's in my own home and I can do whatever I like once I am "competent" for each given task.

 

[transam]

can't beleive this post is still running ??? competence now there is a word ?????? to a certain extent u are correct in whay u say , as the reg's state !!

Any one who does work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel must be competent to do so , wether or not they are required to be a member of an approved class of person's . Therefore do it your self installer's & those performing favour's for freind's & relative's all need to have the required competence . The level & range of competence should match the full extent of work done , but need's only to be suffiecent for & relevant to that work !!

gas safety installation & use reg's , from which the above was taken , state !!!

Competence depend's on a combination of training & expeireince !!! Like most profession's !!

I would suggest that there is your dilema , the fact that u or anyone else perform's diy gas work is neither here nor there , & to be honest does not concern me or us , BUT if a situation occured & you were held accountable for your action's in a legal sense U would find that what u are doing would be illegal , very few court's would consider you competent !!

As for disscusion's in the secret forum , (as u put it ) I can assure u that there is not neither has there ever been to my knowledge any disscusion's about ripping people off , oap's or any one else , alot of recent post's concern health issue's caused by this profession , back's , knee's ect ect . Incidentally what line of work are u in ????

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

Yep post still running, I have got through 2 bags of popcorn allready.

I'm doing pretty good today, snooze on settee, go out, rip off old lady, back home, cup of tea and snooze on settee, back out, cut up people in my big white van while on my mobile, chuck coke can and crisp packet out of van window at end of posh culdisac, as a bonus manage to drip filthy black water all down posh drive out of end of radiator, recommend powerflush for broken ballvalve and thermocouple on toilet cistern, empty dustsheet onto next doors manicured lawn, back home for snooze and cup of tea, perfik day, off to fit solar panels onto a wigwam for some Cherokee's tomoz, told them it would save them money in the long term about 20 years payback time, if the 90 year old guy lives that long, but then he has just paid the insurance man a wad for an investmant plan for when he reaches 125, with gauranteed bonus's apparently
now off to my part time job frighteneing old folks into buying an adjustospastic bed as it will give them their independance in between changing incontinence pads, bless em, ooh, sorry gotta go, guy at the door selling dishclothes and pegs, apparently he is deaf blind and has one ******* bigger than the other from getting in and out of the Merc hidden around the corner full of others all with exactly the same afflictions, amazing, we allways buy something as we feel "obligated" as he is, well you know, right there in front of you, byeeeeeeeeee

 

[greengoddess]

Hi transam

For me to end up in court over a gas issue would almost certainly mean that an accident had occured. For an accident to occur the system would need to be in a dangerous state and it would only be in that state if it was not installed by a competent person. Like I said, once I gain the required info I will consider myself competent.

I am a lab technician and also a sales director for a mail order company by day.

Anyway, all that aside, this afternoon I have completed the full job. I managed to find some very helpful info from a much nicer group of people on another forum who were more interested in helping me than hindering me.

It turns out that my current pipe configuration (allowing for all differences in diameter and all bends and joints) gave me just enough flow rate to install the cooker on the 15mm line. With a maximum draw of 2.8m3/h on a short (2.8m) length of 15mm pipe it was within tolerance. Beyond the 15mm pipe was a 6m length of 22mm. Handily, the huge combi boiler runs off a dedicated 22mm pipe that runs straight from the meter to the boiler so, other than making sure the total draw was less than the UK limit of 6m3, I could go ahead and do it. I also installed an isolating gas valve next to the cooker. The only things I didn't bother doing was fixing the cooker to the wall with the stupid chain, and using and sort of temporary bonding nonsense for the sake of a 20 minute job.

So thank you all for nothing. Unless the 200kg cooker falls over and kills someone then I hardly see myself appearing in front of a judge being charged with not being competent.

 

[greengoddess]

Yep post still running, I have got through 2 bags of popcorn allready.

I'm doing pretty good today, snooze on settee, go out, rip off old lady, back home, cup of tea and snooze on settee, back out, cut up people in my big white van while on my mobile, chuck coke can and crisp packet out of van window at end of posh culdisac, as a bonus manage to drip filthy black water all down posh drive out of end of radiator, recommend powerflush for broken ballvalve and thermocouple on toilet cistern, empty dustsheet onto next doors manicured lawn, back home for snooze and cup of tea, perfik day, off to fit solar panels onto a wigwam for some Cherokee's tomoz, told them it would save them money in the long term about 20 years payback time, if the 90 year old guy lives that long, but then he has just paid the insurance man a wad for an investmant plan for when he reaches 125, with gauranteed bonus's apparently
now off to my part time job frighteneing old folks into buying an adjustospastic bed as it will give them their independance in between changing incontinence pads, bless em, ooh, sorry gotta go, guy at the door selling dishclothes and pegs, apparently he is deaf blind and has one **** bigger than the other from getting in and out of the Merc hidden around the corner full of others all with exactly the same afflictions, amazing, we allways buy something as we feel "obligated" as he is, well you know, right there in front of you, byeeeeeeeeee

You didn't fit my boiler a couple of years ago did you?

 

[transam]

Hi transam

For me to end up in court over a gas issue would almost certainly mean that an accident had occured. For an accident to occur the system would need to be in a dangerous state and it would only be in that state if it was not installed by a competent person. Like I said, once I gain the required info I will consider myself competent.

Hmm yes & no really ??? a real case scenario happened several year's ago concerning a fatality that occured , from C.O leaking from a electric storage heater , (yes electric ) the storage heater had been worked on a couple of day's prior , the guy in question who carried out the work / service ? was prosecuted in the criminal court for I believe amongst other thing's manslaughter , the prosecution was brought by the HSE !
The case was thrown out of court by the presiding Judge because , the fault/ scenario that caused the death was so rare & could not have been forseen , by !!!!! the competent & expirenced electrician , all of which could be proved , with out this in place , he would have been tasting prison food !!!
Your statement I will consider myself competent , has no standing in law !!
because you cannot prove it , you can be held to account for your work , if you ever sell your house , or if something occured in the future , you would also probably find that your household insurance might be null & void if it came to the attention of the insurance company as to what u are or were doing !!!!

 

[greengoddess]

The case was thrown out of court by the presiding Judge because , the fault/ scenario that caused the death was so rare & could not have been forseen , by !!!!! the competent & expirenced electrician

If the fault was so rare that even an experienced electrician could not forsee it then it would also have been thrown out of court if a complete buffoon had worked on it.

Your statement I will consider myself competent , has no standing in law !!
because you cannot prove it , you can be held to account for your work , if you ever sell your house , or if something occured in the future , you would also probably find that your household insurance might be null & void if it came to the attention of the insurance company as to what u are or were doing !!!!

I did not AT ANY TIME say that considering MYSELF competent would legally stand in a court of law. However, should a case against me ever go to court the prosecution would have to PROVE that I WAS NOT competent. That will be extremely difficult because although I am not an RGI, if the work had been done to the same standard and falls within Gas Safe guidelines then how can they possibly prove that I was not competent?

This also works the other way round. Just because someone is an RGI does not mean they are legally competent either. For example, if I did not detect and repair the gas leak in my house a couple of years ago and the leak eventually resulted in a fatal explosion, the orginal gas installer who carried out the dodgy workmanship could have been prosecuted and found guilty of manslaughter. The gas installer in question was a BG engineer (the same one that tested for leaks using a lit match around the joint). It was that same joint that had been seeping out gas for two years before I located it.

 

[nickso]

should a case against me ever go to court the prosecution would have to PROVE that I WAS NOT competent. That will be extremely difficult because although I am not an RGI, if the work has been done to the same standard and falls within Gas Safe guidelines then how can they possibly prove that I was not competent?

if it was in court you would have to assume part of the prosecution case would be evidence of poor installation, therefore your argument about being competent because the installation was done to the relevant standard might not hold.

if they had no such evidence you would have to ask why you were in court in the first place.

 

[greengoddess]

if it was in court you would have to assume part of the prosecution case would be evidence of poor installation, therefore your argument about being competent because the installation was done to the relevant standard might not hold.

That makes no sense to me. If the installation was poor then I was obviously not competent, if the installation was done to the correct standard then I was obviously competent.

The installation has now been done, I've saved myself a couple of hundred quid and I have the pleasure knowing that another of the orange shield brigade is a few quid lighter because of me.

 

[PRS1]

Send me ur address and i"ll come and assess your incontinance
Very Very sad may be try and go out once in a while!
This is the first time in a long time i"ve visited the plumbing forum!
I wont be bothering again!
People like u spoile it for people that are genuinely looking for help from the trades.

 

[transam]

The case was thrown out of court by the presiding Judge because , the fault/ scenario that caused the death was so rare & could not have been forseen , by !!!!! the competent & expirenced electrician

If the fault was so rare that even an experienced electrician could not forsee it then it would also have been thrown out of court if a complete buffoon had worked on it.


No it would not because a complete Buffoon should not have been working on it in the 1st place !!

As for my comment's about competence , they are merely to highlight certain situation's that some have not considered , one should alway's consider a what if , scenario ?? risk assessment perhap's ???

What if you have a fire in your house , caused by some other event , what do you think the attitude of your insurance company would be if it came to there attention that u were doing your own gas work or electrical work would they look for a way out ??? would they investigate further ???

The court does not need to prove that u are incompetent , it does not even have to look at your work , it would be irrelevant , because if you cannot prove u are competent than , u are incompetent , & should not have been doing it , see gas reg's for the hse's definition of competence , none of which u can fullfill ,!!!!

I can drive a car , but got no licence , involved in accident not my fault , no licecs should not have been on the road in the 1st place , but I am competent , in law u are not , but I am a forn=mula one racing driver , still does not matter !!!!!

 

[greengoddess]

transam, you're talking absolute bull.

I would not have to prove my competence in court. It is for the prosecution to prove I was incompetent. As the completed installation meets all the same standards as any RGI installation then they would not be able to prove a thing.

As for the electric heater story... It would not matter one jot if the heater had been worked on by a bunch of cheerleaders with downs syndrome. The judge/jury decided that the fault "was so rare" that even an experienced electrician could not have forseen it. Just because the cheerleaders were out of their depth should not have been working on it does not mean they would have been held responsible for the death... because the fault was so rare.

Game, set and match to GreenGoddess!