Gas Safe changing specs

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Hi all,

Quick question regarding the specifications used for Gas Safe validity.

I am purchasing a flat near London for which the seller provided a Gas Safe new boiler install certificate from 2018.

I had a plumber check the gas last week and he is saying the gas tubes are too small and the current installation is not "Gas Safe" compliant.

How is it possible? I know the specifications sometimes change but it seems the latest change is from early 2018 so if the boiler installation was compliant at the time, it should still be, shouldn't it?

Many thanks
 
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Hi all,

Quick question regarding the specifications used for Gas Safe validity.

I am purchasing a flat near London for which the seller provided a Gas Safe new boiler install certificate from 2018.

I had a plumber check the gas last week and he is saying the gas tubes are too small and the current installation is not "Gas Safe" compliant.

How is it possible? I know the specifications sometimes change but it seems the latest change is from early 2018 so if the boiler installation was compliant at the time, it should still be, shouldn't it?

Many thanks


The regs have not changed in this respect.

TBH, how do you know it WAS compliant? We “self verify”, and all it takes is some box ticking.

I would guess that the pipework is undersized, and it is possible that the supplied figures were slightly “massaged”

Having said that, what did the plumber actual do about it? Did he record his findings and issue any paperwork.

Was the plumber Gas Safe registered ?

You may find this of interest, but be warned it is long, a bit boring and littered with inaccurate comments and suggestions.

:https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/huge-gas-pressure-drop-between-meter-and-boiler-help.584778/
 

CBW

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Is there a warning notice and a label on the boiler? The manufacturer’s instructions would be a good starting point, and then gas rating and other testing.
 
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Many trades can self certify their own work...and it's a farce.
Each year as more and more onerous legislation/regs are brought in more and more of the conscientious installers are driven out of the install business and the standards drop.
If the gas pipe is genuinely undersized the homeowner can request an inspection by Gas-Safe and the installer will be asked to rectify.
By not highlighting a requirement for the gas pipework to be upgraded at the time of install the installer undercuts others with his quote.
 
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I had a plumber check the gas last week and he is saying the gas tubes are too small and the current installation is not "Gas Safe" compliant.

Can you paste a photo of the GS installation document on here along with make and model of the boiler?
 
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Thanks for your replies. I went through the 15pages thread where I indeed learnt a lot.
I just asked for more specific details that would justify having this work done (size of pipes).

The sellers have only shared the Gas Safe install certificate so far, there are no technical details on it.
The boiler is only 3y old and the plumber said he would also recommend changing it as it is "not great quality" but in fairness he said it was not mandatory. (Current boiler is Baxi ecoblue Advance 25)
The only thing he sent me so far is a quote for replacing everything (new pipes, boiler and cylinder with 10y guarantee).
 
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Just got the Gas safe report from the plumber who came last week.

It actually looks a bit different from what I understood on the phone.
He checked a few points and it looks like the boiler is actually safe to use (working appliance pressure = 18mbar, appliance safe to use = yes).

The things in the report that seem not compliant are the following:
  • "kitchen: low working pressure on hob", "working appliance pressure: 12mbar" -> "advised customer gas pipework requires upgrading"
  • "gas installation pipework (visual inspection) satisfactory? No"
Perhaps not as urgent told on the phone, especially if not related to the boiler (which was worrying me)?
 
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The only thing he sent me so far is a quote for replacing everything (new pipes, boiler and cylinder with 10y guarantee).
Get another opinion. Ripping out a 3 year old boiler is a bit extreme, and seems more like a ruse to get more work. A lot of trades are doing the same, roofs, plumbing, electrics, no one seems to want the little repair jobs. My daughter was told she needed a new roof due to a leak. In the end she found an old guy who repaired a bit of lead flashing for a couple of hundred quid rather than several thousand for a roof.
 
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It depends if the the person had recently done their ACS, I know pipe sizing methods did change recently

Yes, the method changed , probably simplifying the calculations However, that doesn’t change the regs. More importantly, the visiting engineer is unlikely to have used the calculations to determine that the pipework is undersized. He would have been, logic dictates, commenting on the greater than 1mb pressure loss.

Incidentally, doing the calculations before and after the change did not actually make a significant difference in pipe size selection
 
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Get another opinion. Ripping out a 3 year old boiler is a bit extreme, and seems more like a ruse to get more work. A lot of trades are doing the same, roofs, plumbing, electrics, no one seems to want the little repair jobs. My daughter was told she needed a new roof due to a leak. In the end she found an old guy who repaired a bit of lead flashing for a couple of hundred quid rather than several thousand for a roof.

Yes, there are anawful lot of rip off merchants around, just looking for excuses for expensive work.
 
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The gas pipe standard has not changed for decades...a maximum of 1 mbar pressure drop is permitted between the gas meter outlet and the appliance inlet.
The consequence of an excessive drop is poor combustion or a flame could extinguish on a hob etc.
I'm assuming the hob has thermocouples on the burners...that will protect against an unburnt gas escape should the flames extinguish due to low pressure.
Anyway it needs sorting out...sometimes low pressure on a hob is just an excessive amount of sealant at the hob connection.


The boiler might only be 3 years old but if it is indeed an EcoBlue Advance 25 Heat only model then it's a dog. Presumerably there's a hot water cylinder too.
Over the last 20 years Baxi have had a fine history of introducing junk onto the market. Some of their range have been ok but many are nothing but trouble.
It's actually a Dutch boiler manufactured by Remeha and re-badged for the UK market. The main reported issue is the failure of the combustion module.
Unlike most manufacturers Remeha have decided to create a complete module and it's pure profiteering. A repair can easily be £450 to £550 bill due to the extortionate cost of the module.

There are very subtle differences between the model names but significant differences in construction so clarify it's a heat only.
 
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The gas pipe standard has not changed for decades...a maximum of 1 mbar pressure drop is permitted between the gas meter outlet and the appliance inlet.
The consequence of an excessive drop is poor combustion or a flame could extinguish on a hob etc.
I'm assuming the hob has thermocouples on the burners...that will protect against an unburnt gas escape should the flames extinguish due to low pressure.
Anyway it needs sorting out...sometimes low pressure on a hob is just an excessive amount of sealant at the hob connection.


The boiler might only be 3 years old but if it is indeed an EcoBlue Advance 25 Heat only model then it's a dog. Presumerably there's a hot water cylinder too.
Over the last 20 years Baxi have had a fine history of introducing junk onto the market. Some of their range have been ok but many are nothing but trouble.
It's actually a Dutch boiler manufactured by Remeha and re-badged for the UK market. The main reported issue is the failure of the combustion module.
Unlike most manufacturers Remeha have decided to create a complete module and it's pure profiteering. A repair can easily be £450 to £550 bill due to the extortionate cost of the module.

There are very subtle differences between the model names but significant differences in construction so clarify it's a heat only.

To clarify, for those who may nit be aware, Remaha is (or was) a Baxi company
 
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The gas pipe standard has not changed for decades...a maximum of 1 mbar pressure drop is permitted between the gas meter outlet and the appliance inlet.
Anyway it needs sorting out...sometimes low pressure on a hob is just an excessive amount of sealant at the hob connection.

I have never been heavily involve in cookers, and only really work on them as part of LA landlord checks. So I do not do a pressure test, but a gas rate check. How did the RGI take a pressure test - there is rarely test point prior to the hob. He probably pressure tested at the injector, which will always reflect a pressure loss across the appliance. That is not to say his recorded pressure is correct or otherwise, just that you cannot say it is wrong without having a reference figure.

Years ago, I use to use a valve similar to this. Obviously in 15mm:
22-mm-compression-ball-valve-with-test-point-brass_min_19950_P_1.jpg




Incidentally, There was talk a few years back that it was to be mandatory to have a test point BEFORE any appliance, i don't know what happened to that. Our ACS centre was presenting it as a done deal (they also supply fittings :sneaky:) but it seems to have disappeared?
 
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