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High Rise Fire

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by securespark, 14 Jun 2017.

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  1. noseall

    noseall

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    I'd prefer smash a window rather than try and kick my way through a plywood sheet.
     
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  3. transam

    transam

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    well noseall that may well be the case assuming that the windows are not fitted with bars

    fact is that cordless power tools are that good (?) now that a locked van can be opened in minutes by cutting a hole in the side of a van
    like opening a tin . (and it has happened )

    getting into a 3 storey prop or ground floor flat via a ladder , why not just open up the wall with a 24 volt reciperating saw ? or power saw after u have kicked the polysterine in

    Fire in these props ?? dunno I suppose they pass some type of standard ??
     
  4. noseall

    noseall

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    Irrespective, the simplest way of getting into someone's house (other than walking in through the door) is via a window - broken or otherwise.
     
  5. Mikefromlondon

    Mikefromlondon

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    interestingly, yes the edges should also have been covered by aluminium layer, so assuming the initial fire broke through the window, and flames started to leap upwards, if the edge was bare, flames would certainly ignite the inner insulating material, so this is where the problem must have started from, the panel edges may not have appropriate seals made out of aluminium, or there may be gaps in edges coverings that ignited it. They may have used plastic trim panels to seal edges instead of aluminum.
     
  6. Roger928

    Roger928

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  7. Mikefromlondon

    Mikefromlondon

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    Celotex, another widely used insulating material in nearly every home and other buildings, including I picked up a few pieces that were surplous to the requirement from a friend's house when he had his loft conversion done, there were 5 sheets of 8x4 x 50mm thick pieces being left outside for anyone to take away, I put them in my car and brought them home to be used as insulator for my loft used only for storage purpose.

    check this; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyisocyanurate

    extract below:
    Health hazards[edit]
    PIR insulation can be a mechanical irritant to skin, eyes, and upper respiratory system during fabrication (such as dust). No statistically significant increased risks of respiratory diseases have been found in studies.[3]

    Fire risk[edit]
    " style="position: relative; margin-right: auto; margin-left: auto; width: 350px;">[​IMG]PIR board fire test
    PIR is at times stated to be fire retardant, or contain fire retardants, however these describe the results of "small scale tests" and "do not reflect [all] hazards under real fire conditions";[4][better source needed] the extent of hazards from fire include not just resistance to fire but the scope for toxic byproducts from different fire scenarios. A 2011 study of fire toxicity of insulating materials at the University of Central Lancashire's Centre for Fire and Hazard Science studied PIR and other commonly used materials under more realistic and wide-ranging conditions representative of a wider range of fire hazard, observing that most fire deaths resulted from toxic product inhalation. The study evaluated the degree to which toxic products were released, looking at toxicity, time-release profiles, and lethality of doses released, in a range of flaming, non-flaming, and poorly ventilated fires, and concluded that PIR generally released a considerably higher level of toxic products than the other insulating materials studied (PIR > PUR > EPS > PHF; glass and stone wools also studied).[5] In particular, hydrogen cyanide is recognised as a significant contributor to the fire toxicity of PIR (and PUR) foams.[6]

    Despite this PIR insulation is generally regarded as being more fire resistant than PUR insulation.[7]

    PIR insulation board (cited as the FR5000 product of Celotex, a Saint-Gobain company) was proposed to be used externally in the refurbishment of Grenfell Tower, London, with vertical and horizontal runs of 100 mm and 150 mm thickness respectively;[8] subsequently "Ipswich firm Celotex confirmed it provided insulation materials for the refurbishment."[9] On 14 June 2017 the block of flats, within 15 minutes, was enveloped in flames from the fourth floor to the top 24th floor. The causes of the rapid spread of fire up the outside of the building have yet to be established.[10] It should be noted that flames can occupy the cavity between the insulation material and the cladding, and be drawn upwards by convection, elongating to create secondary fires, and do so "regardless of the materials used to line the cavities".[11]

    Click on "8" to see a report prepared in 2012 called "Grenfell Tower Regeneration Project SUSTAINABILITY AND ENERGY STATEMENT PLANNING"

    Click on "9" to see how fires in tall Dubai buildings spread rapidly using similar panels and the aftermath of aluminum panels falling to ground causing further secondary fires. Something we could have learned and rectified, but we did not, i hate to say this we in Britain don't like learning from others! rather we like others to learn from us! we have always had this attitude.
     
    Last edited: 23 Jun 2017
  8. ^woody^

    ^woody^

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    I picked up some wooden doors, architrave, frames, joists and a window frame recently.

    Then I noticed a video on YouTube when someone demonstrated that if you put a blowtorch against some wood, it actually burns. It's not at all fire resistant.

    Omg, this stuff is everywhere around the house. Should I be worried?
     
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  9. Only if you're a pyromniac, or negligent, or maybe carless, or a socialist shyte stirer.
     
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  11. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    They don't wrap tower blocks with it though, do they?

    David Lidington - new Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor - said on Question Time last night that the use of the cladding was already against the regulations.
     
  12. noseall

    noseall

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  13. noseall

    noseall

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    Did you happen to arrange these flammable materials in such a way that they would set fire to a tall tower block?
    It's quite simple to do and probably as simple to prevent.
     
    Last edited: 23 Jun 2017
  14. Mikefromlondon

    Mikefromlondon

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    No in your case Woody it is perfectly all right and pretty safe, so sleep worry free, and sleep well, I have no idea why people panic when they see these youtube videos someone lighting wood with a blow torch, even steel catches fire eventually if you supply enough heat and oxygen. How do you think a lump of steel called car catches fire?

    Having said this, I want those panels that will be coming down, I want to insulate my house with it, the trick is to avoid having that stupid cavity between the insulation and the cladding, that is what funneled the oxygen to allow the insulation to burn. That won't happen to my house as there won't be any oxygen supply. I can get my house insulated for free now.
     
    Last edited: 23 Jun 2017
  15. noseall

    noseall

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    Gosh, yes. Let's get some fire fuel or similar, arrange it in a tall rectangular pile with plenty of air around it (the pile needs to be tall so that the flames spread) then set fire to it. Make sure we don't arrange this flammable substance around a high rise building with loads of people asleep in it. That would be dangerous.
     
  16. Now what's wrong Noesall, you don't normally rant like this.

    You're the one who seems to be advocating burning the high rise towers not anyone else.

    Or am I just missing the sarcasm, because it seem to be directed at us, rather than the ones who put the cladding up.
     
  17. securespark

    securespark

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    In a typical car fire which starts under the bonnet, pvc cables and other plastics will catch, from there the fire will spread into the cabin which is chock full of lovely stuff fires love to consume.
     
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