Immigrants and the NHS

[JohnD]

They get everywhere, eh?

"NHS Consultant Paediatrician who arrived in UK in 2005: "It shouldn't be just because I'm a consultant I can stay. Other people from Europe bring just as much contribution. A lot of cleaners and support staff are from Europe and I can't do my job without them"."

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154046588376939

"Current figures show that one in 20 NHS staff in England are from EU countries, including nine per cent of doctors and seven per cent of nurses.

When asked if the NHS is struggling to recruit European staff following the referendum, Professor Jane Dacre, president of the Royal College of Physicians, said:...."

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-07-05/...plying-for-posts-in-the-uk-since-brexit-vote/

 

[Gerrydelasel]

"Anecdotal evidence suggests..."
So no evidence, then.

"this is on top of a history of increasing number of trainee doctors applying to go and work in other countries, particularly in Australia."
Evidently then we need to poach from all over the world, just like Australia does, not just persist with an enforced dependence on some arbitrary countries in Europe. Thanks for the pro-Brexit thread!

 

[gasbanni]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1537576/Ban-doctors-who-cant-speak-English.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34658051

http://www.dailystormer.com/hiring-...es-poor-language-skills-and-lack-of-training/

Echo Gerry delsel thanks for the pro-brexit thread ....

 

[Foxtrot Oscar]

Surly, if we have less people coming over from the EU to live in the UK...With their extended family, then there is less need for NHS staff due to reduced work load..Perhaps we could encourage some of the UK's own unemployed to work in the NHS..

 

[JohnD]

You'd better start persuading them to stop watching Jeremy Vile and start their evening classes.

They've got a lot of education and training to catch up on.

"Current figures show that one in 20 NHS staff in England are from EU countries, including nine per cent of doctors and seven per cent of nurses.

 

[Foxtrot Oscar]

You'd better start persuading them to stop watching Jeremy Vile and start their evening classes.

They've got a lot of education and training to catch up on.

"Current figures show that one in 20 NHS staff in England are from EU countries, including nine per cent of doctors and seven per cent of nurses.

Make it worth their while and they will train and work...

 

[noseall]

Make it worth their while and they will train and work...

The other 19 out 20 employed at the NHS seem to think it's worth their while.

 

[Curlewhouse]

We have a problem for nurses now though. As there are no bursaries any more, there is a real dearth of newly trained UK nurses. Many, many wards are understaffed, and my own wife who works nights is sometimes the only nurse on an entire ward at night - 12 hour shift, 20+ post op patients who may go downhill very suddenly so need close attention even if they seem OK. She sometimes brings her lunch home uneaten as in that 12 hours she has never been able to stop for a break. She's doing drug calculations 11 hours in with no break and maybe no food - the miracle is there's not far more mistakes than there are. The HR dept. are desperate to pounce on the nurses too (curiously there are over 100 of HR staff though!) so god help them if they do make an error. Sometimes she's even struggled to get time to go to the toilet! Now, one option is to bring in lots of nurses trained overseas (to slightly different standards shall we say) and indeed someone from our local health trust is out in the Philippines right now recruiting. My wife is the first one to say that most of them are really good workers by the way. But since they send the vast majority of their wages back home, this isn't good for the national finances as that money is lost from the economy. But since a young person wanting to train as a nurse would currently have to find the money for the University course, then somehow also support themselves when on placement (which is part of the training) with NO income, then also whilst back to Uni again, having seen nurses stressed to bits, in tears at times and pursued at every turn by HR depts. (our positively rejoices in trying tom trip them up - if I told you some of the stories I know you'd think I was making them up) naturally it is not only an unattractive option, but financially impossible for most now.

 

[wobs]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1537576/Ban-doctors-who-cant-speak-English.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34658051

http://www.dailystormer.com/hiring-...es-poor-language-skills-and-lack-of-training/

Echo Gerry delsel thanks for the pro-brexit thread ....

Well according to Gerry, most of what you've just put up is not evidence, as its mostly anecdotal.

 

[noseall]

But since they send the vast majority of their wages back home, this isn't good for the national finances

Do they send their income tax back home too?

 

[Roger928]

Do they send their income tax back home too?

Yes a lot of them do just that..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10551151/How-EU-migrants-avoid-tax-in-UK.html

And of course a lot of them are just paid cash and not on any taxation radar.
Being a builder it must be tempting to stick your snout in the trough and employ them at cheap rates?.

 

[noseall]

Yes a lot of them do just that..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10551151/How-EU-migrants-avoid-tax-in-UK.html

And of course a lot of them are just paid cash and not on any taxation radar.
Being a builder it must be tempting to stick your snout in the trough and employ them at cheap rates?.

We were talking about NHS staff Rog. Pay attention boyo.

 

[noseall]

Being a builder it must be tempting to stick your snout in the trough and employ them at cheap rates?.

Message me a link. I'll start interviewing in the new year.

 

[JohnD]

they send the vast majority of their wages back home

The owner of the Daily Mail, Lord Rothermere, does the same.

Except that you might think his "home" was the UK, where he was born, grew up, was educated, and has his business and his mansion. But he doesn't pay tax here.

 

[Judy in the sky]

Many, many wards are understaffed, and my own wife who works nights is sometimes the only nurse on an entire ward at night.

Does your wife use the Datix system to report such times when she is the only nurse on a ward at night? If not she really should. Wards have to have a minimum of two nurses on duty as breaks have to be taken off the ward. Wards are not allowed to have no nurses on the ward (even for half an hour break) They have to be covered for breaks. I'm a nurse and have used the Datix system to report staff shortages. One night shift I turned up for duty and found I was to be the only nurse on duty (other nurse had phoned in sick) . First thing I did was to phone the on call senior nurse (on another ward ) and tell her this situation was untenable and that I would IR (Incident Report) this, as it meant when I took my break the ward would not be covered, should any incident arise. Had an incident occurred whilst I was on my break and the ward was not covered, I'd be putting my NMC pin number at risk. Within half an hour a bank nurse arrived. When ever such situations arise within the NHS it should be reported. (If it's not written down or reported then it never happened. (an old maxim)