Is this legal?

[Johnmelad502]

We have been having problems for several months, my landlords son-in-law turned up today and removed the RCB and replaced it with one that was smaller in size, he covered the gaps up with tape, though dangerous I would have thought, is it legal?

 

[bongos]

Whether it's legal? I would suggest not. Consumer units have a certain IP rating and sticky tape over a blank space will not meet it.

It certainly is dangerous as the inside of the CU is only protected by a bit of sticky tape. Blanking plates (like those on the left side of the CU) should have been used.Also while not specifically dangerous as it appears to be a Hager board the RCD should really have been replaced by a Hager RCD.

I believe this work is notifiable. Was any certificate left following the work? I think we all know the answer to that!

Out of interest why has he placed the RCD? I assume you have been having nuisance trips but that doesn't necessarily mean there is a problem with the RCD it's more often a wiring fault.

 

[Click-Sure]

Not illegal as such, as BS7671 is not a statatury document, however there are a lot of Health & Safety and duty of care documents that are.

Observations:

1 RCD protecting all circuits. - If the toaster malfunctions you lose everything throught the house, most importantly, the lights. A fun midnight snack gets a little less fun in pitch black!

Tape is not a sufficient insulated physical barrier to keep people away from live parts, thats why consumer units are not made out of cling film.

Installing a Doepke RCCB inside a Hager consumer unit is also not reccomended because it is unlikely they have been 'type tested' together.

I take it the landlords son is notifying this work to the local building control department, or is he a member of a competant persons scheme?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not illegal as such, as BS7671 is not a statatury document, however there are a lot of Health & Safety and duty of care documents that are.

There's also the Building Regulations in England & Wales.

So if this CU is there then it is definitely illegal, unless you think that what has been done qualifies as reasonable provision to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installation from fire or injury....

FWIW I don't.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Not illegal as such, as BS7671 is not a statatury document, however there are a lot of Health & Safety and duty of care documents that are.

There's also the Building Regulations in England & Wales.

So if this CU is there then it is definitely illegal, unless you think that what has been done qualifies as reasonable provision to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installation from fire or injury....

FWIW I don't.

 

[mattylad]

If you can get a finger in there then I'm sure it's not legal.

It's currently dangerous, perhaps contact your landlord & ask him when he is going t fit the blank, they are AFAIK usually available from electrical suppliers.

 

[securespark]

If you can get a finger in there then I'm sure it's not legal.

 

[nozspark]

If you can get a finger in there then I'm sure it's not legal.

Don't try it though!!

 

[ericmark]

I would not condone the way this work has been done but although at the top of a consumer unit the IP rating will not allow anything over 1mm and the front we are looking at the British Standard Finger which is 12.5mm wide and a single space is 12mm wide so just within the regulation.
As to legal I am sure not Part P and although BS7671:2008 is not law it can be used in a court of law so may as well be.
But in real terms it is not going to help to quote law or issue threats far more likely either to buy a couple of blanks and pop them in or contact land lord and ask if he can provide the proper blanks as tape has fallen off.
Only if someone is injured is the law likely to get involved.
I as an electrician have been caught out and gone to a job and to help have done something temporary like this with the intention of returning next day but a boss has intervened and stopped my return.
I would hope a civil request would put things right.

 

[Johnmelad502]

For several months now we have been having problems with all of the lights in the house flashing. This would often result in the main RCB (the gig thing replaced) tripping. This could happen at any time of the day or night, but for some reason it mostly happened at night when we were in bed and little or no electricity was being drawn.

The landlord had his son-in-law around to do tests a couple of times but they could not locate the fault. The flashing could last 4 or 5 seconds before the fuse tripped or the flashing just stopped of its own accord.

We looked out for things like the fridge, washing machine etc switching on to see if this was causing the problem but nothing coincided with the flashing. Just after Christmas I wrote to the landlord complaining about the situation and asking him to get someone in to sort it out as I feared an electrical fire.

In return I received a letter from his solicitor taking possession of the property. We have to now find somewhere to line by the end of march.

Since the RCB was replaced, we still get the flashing but so fare no tripping of the fuse but this work was only done a couple of days ago. The replacement RCB is said to be less sensitive than the original. So we now have a situation where the fault is still there, but the fuse no longer trips. I am not an electrician but it looks to me as if they have done the equivalent of replacing a 5 amp fuse in a plug with a 15 amp fuse.

Any suggestions as to where I go next.

The electrician told me that the work was not notifiable, even though the fuse box is in the kitchen very close to the sink as maintenance and repair is not notifiable.

Of interest, the electrician who did this works as an electrician at our local British Nuclear Fuels Ltd site.

 

[Steve]

Its a 30mA RCD, the lowest commonly available rating. Your last RCD was probably 30mA too.

 

[sparkyspike]

Whether or not this job is notifiable, the RCD must have been tested. Otherwise how do you know it works at all?

Anyway, the fact is that the fault has not been located. Normally I would look for a loose connection in the CU at one of the breakers, but as ALL lights are flashing and you have more than one lighting circuit, I would suggest a supply fault. The electrician should be able to eliminate the installation from the problem and would then need to call the DNO to have the supply checked.

 

[sparkyspike]

Its a 30mA RCD, the lowest commonly available rating. Your last RCD was probably 30mA too.

It probably was, but as you have an RCD as an incomer, it could have been a 100mA.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The electrician told me that the work was not notifiable, even though the fuse box is in the kitchen very close to the sink as maintenance and repair is not notifiable.

It's a common mistake to think that Part P of the Building Regulations only applies to notifiable work - it doesn't, it applies to any work done on any fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter.

So even if not notifiable it still has to comply with P1, which says:

P1 Reasonable provision shall be made in the
design and installation of electrical installations
in order to protect persons operating,
maintaining or altering the installations from
fire or injury.

Reasonable provision was not made in the installation of that RCD, so in England or Wales (where P1 applies) it was illegal.

And any EIC for it would have been falsely issued.

 

[Steve]

Its a 30mA RCD, the lowest commonly available rating. Your last RCD was probably 30mA too.

It probably was, but as you have an RCD as an incomer, it could have been a 100mA.

I was writing in reference to his spark, who said he had replaced with one less sensitive.