Is this lot compliant?

[Gasguru]

Evening,

Went to investigate a boiler failing to ignite....turned out to be reversed polarity at the boiler (despite wiring being correct inside). Opened up the new fused spur outlet....colours all OK there. Had a look at the new consumer unit....the meter tails were crossed at the main isolator.

What's more intrigueing is the NIC certificate passing the installation with flying colours.

From what I gather the homeowner has had a kitchen renovation complete with a new consumer unit....all occuring over the last few weeks ie after 1/07/08.

The non-kitchen sockets (16A radials), lighting, and cooker feed are apparently wired in metal conduit. The new kitchen ring (not in conduit) is feed from the RCD protected 32A MCB on the left.

So the only RCD protection is for the new ring, as all the other circuits are apparently in conduit.

The cooker feed run in singles come out of the conduit behind the oven to the isolator in the next base unit. The 3 Kw oven is fed from this...no 13A fusing...is this acceptable of just bad practice?

Obviously the hob and extractor cabling has been extended (the tape does not even fully cover the terminal blocks). I'm assuming this can't be compliant?

The missing blank on the consumer unit.

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• Gasguru
• 5 Aug 2008
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• Gasguru
• 5 Aug 2008
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• Gasguru
• 5 Aug 2008
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Fire away with any faults and non-compliance...the customer just needs a few starting points before having a full report carried out.

Needless to say the gas work was a joke

Thanks.

 

[securespark]

1st piccy - what size is the breaker for the oven?

2nd piccy- what csa is the singles?

3rd piccy - is that flex coming out of the oven isolator?

 

[lazygit]

The non-kitchen sockets (16A radials), lighting, and cooker feed are apparently wired in metal conduit

The non-kitchen sockets should be on an RCD regardless of being wired in earthed metal conduit

The cooker feed run in singles come out of the conduit behind the oven to the isolator

Unsheathed cables must be in an enclosure or conduit

The 3 Kw oven is fed from this...no 13A fusing

What size cable connects to the oven?

Obviously the hob and extractor cabling has been extended (the tape does not even fully cover the terminal blocks). I'm assuming this can't be compliant?

Surely thats not the work of an NICEIC approved contractor?
Screw terminals must be accessible for future inspection. If the tape has to be cut away to gain access you could argue its not accessible

The missing blank on the consumer unit

What's more intrigueing is the NIC certificate passing the installation with flying colours

 

[Spark123]

Could the reverse polarity have been caused by the addition of the isolator later?
Most testers have some sort of a built in which give some sort of warning of reverse polarity, also the polarity live is test is meant to be done as soon as there is power to the system.

 

[Gasguru]

The oven is fed via singles from the 32A radial (next to the main CU isolating switch) to the isolator in the base unit next to the oven housing. . There is no further fusing down to 13A for the oven. The black oven cable would appear to be 1.5mm (but possible 2.5mm). The singles appear to be at least 4mm.

The black flex in the lower right hand corner of image 2 exits the isolator from the rear.

Unfortunately I ran out of time making the gas installation safe so had limited time to investigate further. The customer has paid a significant price for shoddy work. Am I correct in thinking the NICEIC will investigate if called out by a customer?

The difficulty is ascertaining which individuals are responsible for each task. The kitchen carcassing, gaswork, oven/extractor/hob ignition were carried out by Polish subs appointed by the kitchen company. AFAIK the electrician was also appointed by the kitchen company. At what point the electrician attended is still unknown. How the tails ended up reversed remains a mystery.

Do you get many roque NICEIC contractors in London. CORGI makes absolutely no difference to gas...plenty of roque rgi's...and CORGI actively ignore it

 

[Albert]

If the circuit is not protected by RCD it has to be:

1) In metal earthed conduit .
2) Cable with earthed metallic covering to BS8436, BS5467 etc.
and few more options this you can find in BS7671-2008 regulations: 522.6.5 and 522.6.6

 

[Gasguru]

Here's the certificate. The work entailed a new kitchen ring, new oven radial singles, and replacement consumer unit.

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• Gasguru
• 5 Aug 2008
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Thanks so far.

 

[Spark123]

The green certificates can be issued by anyone, the use of a green certificate indicates that it is not an NICEIC contractor which has done the work or it is an NICEIC contractor working outside their scope.
Also, a MWC should not be used for a new circuit - should have been a full Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC).
Should also have a full EIC for a replacement CU.

 

[Albert]

The green certificates can be issued by anyone, the use of a green certificate indicates that it is not an NICEIC contractor which has done the work or it is an NICEIC contractor working outside their scope.
Also, a MWC should not be used for a new circuit.
Should have been a full Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC).
Should also have a full EIC for a replacement CU.

Very naughty! I agree and think that no one of the members of a competent person scheme would make a mistake with the forms, in a job like this it is obvious the kind of certificate required.

I would not try and verify if the work was notified because probably it was not...

If you call the NICEIC with the details of the person they will confirm to you whether he is a member or not, if he is a member you can complain.

 

[Gasguru]

........The green certificates can be issued by anyone, the use of a green certificate indicates that it is not an NICEIC contractor which has done the work or it is an NICEIC contractor working outside their scope.....

He is listed on the NICEIC website and his registration number is on the form.

 

[Spark123]

If he can issue the correct certificate then why use a green one? (and the wrong green one at that - it even says that on the certificate above part 1 ffs.) The only person who can answer that is him.
Has the householder recieved anything from their LABC or NICEIC re Part P?
He also has the max Zs value wrong. EEBADS should be just ADS. It isn't a ring main, it is a ring final circuit. Missed RCD type.

 

[Gasguru]

So either the LABC or the NICEIC should send the owner a certificate indicating compliance....will ask them. They certainly won't be getting anything from Corgi for the new hob...it's not even the correct one for the property type.

 

[Spark123]

As it is notifiable under part p of the building regs then they should get something through about it I'd expect. Not 100% sure who sends it, others will know better than me.

 

[Pensdown]

So either the LABC or the NICEIC should send the owner a certificate indicating compliance....will ask them. They certainly won't be getting anything from Corgi for the new hob...it's not even the correct one for the property type.

Nor will they be getting anything from the NIC. That green certificate is nothing to do with the NIC and their self certification scheme - they sell them to all and sundry.

Judging by your photos, I would say the customer has been well and truly shafted.

 

[ebee]

Minor works certificates are only for minor works such as an addition to an existing circuit and not for a new circuit such as a ring final and neither for the replacing of a consumer unit.
So you should have been given an Electrical Installation Certificate.

If the contractor is registered with one of the schemes such as NICEIC then they will notify Local Authority Building Control within 30 days of completion and the scheme will also send you a certificate advising you that Building Regs have been complied with.

To meet this 30 day deadline the scheme operator usually insist that the installer informs them within 21 days.

The installer should also have given you an insurance backed warranty or the option of purchasing one if the total electrical works exceeds £200