Jimmy Saville

[LastMagicBean]

Giver or receiver???

If the latter, why do you allow this animal to be alive.???

Nice try If it were the former then is one never permitted to be forgiven and amends made within one's lifetime? If it were the latter then what makes you think the the same statement hasn't been applied? Human's do f**k up, quite horrendously at times. Providing guilt has been accepted, remorse has been shown and reconciliation of the facts between the injured parties been made, what else can one do??

Either way, deal with the living, not with the dead.

Ok, now if I understand this right (gutted for you if i'm right), How can you possibly forgive him. You should have spoken up, you could have potentially saved many, many others.

I sincerely apologize, I didn't know.

 

[calorific]

Ok, now if I understand this right (gutted for you if i'm right), How can you possibly forgive him. You should have spoken up, you could have potentially saved many, many others.

I sincerely apologize, I didn't know.

Still fishing? Thanks anyway for the kind thoughts!

You have no idea of any details and the number of people involved (or indeed if anyone else was involved). The first thing anyone has to do is come to terms with what has happened, regardless of whether one is the abused or the abuser. The latter has a harder time of it IMO since he/she lives in fear of exposure and ruin in their lifetime, and this may well involve new (innocent) family/friends/offspring, quite apart from the knowledge that in retrospect they made a terrible mistake way back when...

The abused has to come to terms with the fact that they didn't have the wherewithal to stop events happening at the time, and have to live with the guilt of letting it happen without reconciliation being made.

It's a difficult thing. But I still think that it's essential to come to terms or air one's grievances when you and/or the abuser is alive. Raising the coffin lid and pi$$ing on the corpse is of no real value, especially if you're doing it for public notoriety and effect rather than atonement. To do so IMO panders to this curious thing of late of public grieving and mob lynching, which has been discussed at length elsewhere on these boards recently.

 

[LastMagicBean]

Ok, now if I understand this right (gutted for you if i'm right), How can you possibly forgive him. You should have spoken up, you could have potentially saved many, many others.

I sincerely apologize, I didn't know.

Still fishing? Thanks anyway for the kind thoughts!

You have no idea of any details and the number of people involved (or indeed if anyone else was involved). The first thing anyone has to do is come to terms with what has happened, regardless of whether one is the abused or the abuser. The latter has a harder time of it IMO since he/she lives in fear of exposure and ruin in their lifetime, and this may well involve new (innocent) family/friends/offspring, quite apart from the knowledge that in retrospect they made a terrible mistake way back when...

The abused has to come to terms with the fact that they didn't have the wherewithal to stop events happening at the time, and have to live with the guilt of letting it happen without reconciliation being made.

It's a difficult thing. But I still think that it's essential to come to terms or air one's grievances when you and/or the abuser is alive. Raising the coffin lid and p**sing on the corpse is of no real value, especially if you're doing it for public notoriety and effect rather than atonement. To do so IMO panders to this curious thing of late of public grieving and mob lynching, which has been discussed at length elsewhere on these boards recently.

Not fishing at all. Lost for words though. I genuinely feel for you if this happened to you. I mean it.

One last question though. Would you be as forgiving if this behaviour happened to your daughter.?????

 

[sooey]

You have no idea of any details and the number of people involved

Nor do you yet. Assuming for the sake of argument that he was a paedo then of course it matters. To his victims if no one else.
Plus, as chapaeu has said he'd heard these tales years ago, the question needs to be asked why it didn't come to light earlier.
If people have been covering up for him because he was a good fund raiser, thus allowing him to carry on regardless, then that's scandalous.

 

[calorific]

You have no idea of any details and the number of people involved

Nor do you yet. Assuming for the sake of argument that he was a paedo then of course it matters. To his victims if no one else.
Plus, as chapaeu has said he'd heard these tales years ago, the question needs to be asked why it didn't come to light earlier.
If people have been covering up for him because he was a good fund raiser, thus allowing him to carry on regardless, then that's scandalous.

With respect, chapeau has a tendency to make unsubstantiated and ill-researched claims and as such many of his "headline" statements should be taken with a pinch of salt or at least viewed with suspicion.

I am fully aware that somewhere within the current psyche of discussion lay that spectre of the Hillsborough report and we are likely to be stilted with suspicions of-establishment cover-ups as a consequence. However, I am of the opinion that Saville has never been proven to be a paedophile; allegations have never been tried in court and his victims have curiously remained silent throughout his declining years when his powers and influences had gone and the opportunity to set the record straight was more than available.

Why some journalist is trying to make a name for himself and over-inflate his importance is self evident. Those who took part in this posthumous witchunt and overstate their case have questionable motives IMO.

 

[calorific]

Not fishing at all. Lost for words though. I genuinely feel for you if this happened to you. I mean it.

You seem to assume that I was abused and was not the abuser. Would you feel the same if it turned out that it was I who was at fault?

One last question though. Would you be as forgiving if this behaviour happened to your daughter.?????

People mess up all the time. Providing there was contrition and my daughter was able to cope, what purpose would there be in perpetuating an attack on someone who was/is unwell and who acted rashly? If they admitted their guilt, apologised and all parties have tried to move on, then what benefit would there be to keep raking it up?

 

[sooey]

From some of your comments you seem to have as much sympathy for the abuser as the abused in these cases.
IF Saville was an abuser then it's right he should be exposed as one,
By all accounts there are numerous victims with similar stories as well as witnesses.
Perhaps we should wait to see what they have to say.
It's funny how some people don't like their idols to be shown to have feet of clay.

 

[calorific]

I think that sometimes those who have done the ill-deed have a hard time living with what they have done. Not only have they done something terrible on the spur and whim of the moment whcih seemed OK at the time, but they have to live in eternal dread of it being uncovered years hence when their lives have moved on and other innocent bystanders may get dragged into it and suffer as a consequence of the "sins of the fathers" for want of a better expression.

This doesn't meant that I sympathise with their actions, but I can comprehend how their guilt and remorse and fear will be a constant blight on their lives just as it is for their victims (indeed, one could argue that at times it is more so). I can also understand that they live their life in the full knowledge that at some stage in their life they have failed as a "normal" human being.

If Saville was a paedophile (and it's a big "if") then he had to live with that ailment and the fear of being outed during his lifetime. Does that guilt not count for anything after his death? And I ask again - why did these people wait until some TV speculator to make a "documentary"with a pre-determined outcome before casting their allegations?

There are no winners here - all one can do is hope for a score draw.

 

[sooey]

Does that guilt not count for anything after his death?

NO

For a start you're projecting the guilt you may have felt on to him, if these allegations are true he was a repeat offender so his guilt counted for nothing during his life. If he felt any at all.

 

[calorific]

OK, that makes sense - there's a huge difference between a one-off blip and a habitual re-occurrence.

So now we're back to the question of "why wait until now" to blab it out?

 

[captaincaveman1]

The people who bought his memrobilla at the auction should be worried the value is going to plummet if this is true !!!!! . Nearly decided to bid on a jim'll fix it badge as well glad I didnt now

 

[chapeau]

With respect, chapeau has a tendency to make unsubstantiated and ill-researched claims and as such many of his "headline" statements should be taken with a pinch of salt or at least viewed with suspicion.

"With Respect" ha ha ha. At least what I said stacks up with what has been revealed in the papers after I made my original statement. I know about other things too but libel laws in this country mean it's not safe to say some things while people are still alive.

There was a case I know not so long ago when a tabloid had to pay a HUGE amount of money out even though the tabloid got it right. The incontrovertible evidence was a video on a mobile phone, the tabloid saw the video then printed the story. The subject of the story managed to buy the phone and throw huge amounts of cash around before the tabloid actually took possession of the phone and so that evidence became unavailable. Tabloid had no choice but to apologise and pay out.

I know this because the journalist comes round for dinner a bit.

Others too.

(and I know you're upset with me because I merge near the roadworks but just get over it)

 

[Paul Barker]

I recall a group of female colleagues at Scarborough hospital encountering Jim during a meal out at a restaurant and they found his advances inappropriate and leary, but this is not unusual in men of his age at that time (early 2000) when encountering a group of young nurses together on a night out. I have never heard anything which suggests he did anything with any children.

Sometimes in our modern society there is a witch hunt against men of that age out alone, which is in the mind of the accuser. You are damned for being a man alone.

I recall the early morning vivdly when I was pushin my son as a new baby up and down the street to give my wife a break and a woman rang the police, I was stopped and searched. "sorry we have had to do this because a woman rang up and complained."

please, deal in facts not suspicions. the pendulum has swung much too far against men.

 

[joe-90]

Flippin eck - Paul Barker in GD???

 

[calorific]

Flippin eck - Paul Barker in GD???

I'm more shocked by his claim of knowing some women