Kitchen installation

[lawrenso]

Hi Guys - seeking a bit of advice here about the times it should take to fit the kitchen in the links below

http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/6327682

it consists of a kitchen with

400mm floor
800 mm pan drawer
600mm cooker
500 mm drawers
corner carousel unit
1000mm base
600mm dishwasher
1000mm base
600mm intergrated appliance tower (contains tall larder fridge)
700mm gas hob
1000mm 1.5 bowl and tap

400 wall
600 wall
600 wall
600 wall
1000mm wall

Pelmets
Utility room

500mm tall larder unit
600mm base

2*600 mm wall
300mm wall

now the sink is in the same place and the dishwasher as well in the kitchen, and the sink is in the same place in the utility. I made up the majority of the cabinets (except for the 1000mm and the appliance and larder tower).
All the pelmets are misaligned going from flush with the door front to being proud by about 1cm. The end of one of the pelmets has been scratch coated in where he has filled a cable run. All the pelmets along the front have been screwed into from inside the cabinet and he has over countersunk these holes so it looks unsightly when you open the cupboards. I believe that you should screw into the cabinet from the pelmet (there is a lip at the back to do this)
The door to the dishwasher comes off in your hand - and the handle is not straight by about a cm, plus the door has been chipped by the handle.

We have had the kitchen wall units hung a bit higher than normal which has meant the top of the towers have had to be built up. we asked for the face of this to be in line with the door - he has done 1 and not the other one... and the list goes on!. he took a day to fit the utili...ing. Advice please from people in the know

 

[Softus]

You clearly don't trust this tradesperson, so why did you engage him in the first place?

 

[lawrenso]

You clearly don't trust this tradesperson, so why did you engage him in the first place?

We did trust him - but his level of work has shown he is not up to the job. I can do better but unfortunately I have a full time job to do. I am just about to phone the kitchen company to get a price and order new pelmets of which I will end up replacing.

On Saturday he only had a couple of hours left, on Sunday he only had a couple of hours left, on Monday he only had a couple of hours left and was in all day and he is planning on coming back in today.
Please - any feedbacks

 

[Softus]

Certainly my confidence would be shaken if someone said "couple of hours" and it turned out to be three visits over three days", and the mistakes don't help, but have you asked him for a quote, a day rate, hourly rate, or what?

It seems odd that you've engaged someone who's not entirely competent - how did you find this person in the first place?

 

[lawrenso]

It seems odd that you've engaged someone who's not entirely competent - how did you find this person in the first place?

hourly rate - we have a neighbour up the road who has built 2 houses, and it was his project manager who put us in touch with him - highly recommended. We had this guy round on Saturday morning about our concerns with the quality and speed of work but he said we were being picky.

When we had our last kitchen done in our last house we had MFI do the work - they were not cheap but they (2 guys) were in and out in under two days and overall done a good job of the work. This was ripping out the kitchen, building the units and fitting and jointing of 3 worktops together (u-shaped kitchen). Admittedly that kitchen was about half the size, but as I said earlier, all the units were assembled for Thursday and he has had a clear run at the kitchen. We just needed a guy to come back for an hour or so to put things right. That was in another part of the country though and we had heard reports that the company used by MFI locally to where we are now was not that good.

Personally - they guy is very nice - I would have a pint with him anytime - but it has been the quality and the speed of his work that is the issue.

As far as I am concerned he has ruined £400 of worktops with a poor joint that gets dirt trapped in it (a groove about 2mm wide) and the angled part of the join does not match up and you can see the substrate underneath the laminate and I have had a price if we just replace the pelmets and the damaged doors etc of £307 before paying for them to be fitted or my time to fit them, and if we count the units were he has screwed into the pelmets from inside the cabine (and countersunk the screw heads - quite a bit bigger than the actual screw heads which are visible when you open the doors) this figure comes to £517 - 25% of the price of the kitchen units and 66 % of the total costs of the worktops

Steve

 

[lawrenso]

well - received his invoice - 50 hours at his hourly rate. This is for the removing of a stud wall and the replacement of it with a stud wall with a pocket door insert. and putting in the units listed above with a bit of plumbing. To be honest, I think that I am going to have to quote the supply of goods and services act to him.

Also, tonight we have found a deep dinge on the edge of a worktop and it comes further forward than the tiles will I think that I will have to investigate his insurance policy to get all these things rectified. I will post back to here for all the items that are defective/below standard.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Softus]

Kill me now.

 

[Steve]

Kill me now.

Why?

 

[Nige F]

Kill me now.

Why?

to put him out of his misery and despair @ people

 

[Softus]

Kill me now.

Why?

Well, pretty much as Nige has said.

I despair of this kind of topic, where the OP presents the belief that he/she is overpaying (or has overpaid) for some service. Sometimes they start off without any criticism of the tradesperson's work, or, as in this topic, the faults are stated at the outset (which is at least the more honest approach).

Anyhow, the OP had already made up his/her mind before creating this topic, and, perhaps only subconciously, was seeking affirmation of his/her feelings.

So all we're really doing is killing time until the moment that the OP:

a) gets abusive;
or
b) decides he's not getting much joy from the regulars on the forum and goes silent

Either way the writing's on the wall.

To the OP: I apologise in advance if you find this offensive or insulting, or if I've misread the situation, but please be sensitive to the number of times that people present the kind of problem that you are here, and of the number of times that the outcome satisfied everybody.

Oh, the exception to the rule is when a new member joins, called "I'm-a-busty-maiden-who's-being-brutally-taken-advantage-of", in which case all the sex-starved blokes rush to parade their knowledge, empathy and toolboxes in front of said girly.

Call me jaded, but I'm afraid that's how it is.

 

[lawrenso]

Hi Softus,

thankyou for your apology as although I don't find your non-constructive comments insulting they smack a bit of thread spoiling. I did come to these forums to seek advice from people in the know - I thought that this was one of the purposes of them.

Perhaps I should change my handle to busty maiden or whatever so I do not get these jaded comments. If you do not like the thread - why read it or even post to it? Perhaps you are one of these people that even if a program announces that it contains offensive material - you watch it - and then complain about it? or do you want to wind people up so that they do become offensive or become disillusioned and leave the forums and perhaps continue to get ripped off. I understand your statement about you have seen this many times before - however this has not happened to me before and two lines of constructive comment from yourself, who seems to be a distinguished member with a large number of posts would of been greatly appreciated.
If you don't want to do this, please read my earlier comment regarding not reading the post.

Anyway - I am in a situation where I have now terminated the services of said tradesman, and we have been presented with an invoice for a large amount of hours which I feel does not justify

a) the amount of work that has been done (part of what I am seeking advice on)

b) The defective items that need to be rectified by either myself or another tradesman (Advice would be greatly appreciated on claiming on a tradesman's insurance for damaged items and work to put it right)

c) That we have been left with a kitchen that although functional is not complete.

Any constructive advice would be greatly appreciated (please note softus )

Cheers

 

[Softus]

So all we're really doing is killing time until the moment that the OP:

a) gets abusive;
or
b) decides he's not getting much joy from the regulars on the forum and goes silent

And here it is...

thankyou for your apology as although I don't find your non-constructive comments insulting they smack a bit of thread spoiling.

You use the term "thread spoiling" as though it's a recognised phrase, but it isn't, and I'm not.

I did come to these forums to seek advice from people in the know - I thought that this was one of the purposes of them.

The purpose, in case you haven't taken the time to read it, is:

Your Projects
Are you working on your own home improvement project? Share tips, ideas, and frustrations with others.

And not:

Your Whinges
Come on here and try to get people to criticise someone else in the same industry.

________________________

Perhaps I should change my handle to busty maiden or whatever so I do not get these jaded comments.

I think you'll find the horse has already bolted.

If you do not like the thread - why read it or even post to it?

How would I know without reading it whether or not I liked it? The reason I posted is to point out to you, and to people like you, that your situation (a) isn't unique, and (b) bolstering your opinion of your tradesman isn't what this site is about.

Perhaps you are one of these people that even if a program announces that it contains offensive material - you watch it - and then complain about it?

No - I'm broad-minded, and sometimes I quite like to watch offensive material on the TV. If you're at all serious about getting personal then you're going to have to try much harder to insult me.

or do you want to wind people up so that they do become offensive or become disillusioned and leave the forums and perhaps continue to get ripped off.

If you leave the forum because of my civilised post, then perhaps you're over-sensitive and/or already disillusioned.

I understand your statement about you have seen this many times before - however this has not happened to me before

I could tell that, which is why I asked you to be sensitive to the fact that it happens quite a lot.

...and two lines of constructive comment from yourself, who seems to be a distinguished member with a large number of posts would of been greatly appreciated.

Oh but I am being constructive - it's for the greater good that people don't create topics in this style. If you're so selfish that you just want free advice without considering the industry from which that advice is drawn, then don't be surprised when that selfishness is uncovered and pointed out to you.

If you don't want to do this, please read my earlier comment regarding not reading the post.

What? Again?!

Anyway - I am in a situation where I have now terminated the services of said tradesman

Which clearly was going to happen no matter what anyone on the forum wrote.

...and we have been presented with an invoice for a large amount of hours which I feel does not justify

In that case my constructive advice to you is that next time, as is often advised on this web site, you should engage someone who has been recommended to you by someone you trust.

a) the amount of work that has been done (part of what I am seeking advice on)

The relevant legislation (which I can quote but let's not do that yet) entitles you to expect a reasonable standard of skill and care from your tradesman. Clearly he has not satisfied you, but quality is a subjective thing. Your best way forward is to write down a list of the faults, send him a copy, and tell him politely that you expect these to be rectified at his cost. You can keep in reserve the fact that, if he fails or declines, you can get them rectified and then claim any reasonable cost from him.

BTW, if you act towards him how you've started to act on this topic, you won't endear yourself to him and he'll not be inclined to either rectify or refund.

Advice would be greatly appreciated on claiming on a tradesman's insurance for damaged items and work to put it right[/color])

His insurance is none of your business, although he's legally obliged to have some. Your claiming from him, not his insurers.

c) That we have been left with a kitchen that although functional is not complete.

I imagine that that would be upsetting, and I'm sorry to hear that. However, try to put aside all emotion and deal with him on a factual basis.

Any constructive advice would be greatly appreciated (please note softus )

Please note what?

BTW, I'm not "distinguished" (sic.).

 

[Patho]

Lawrenso,

With respect, I have read through your 11 posts and find that you have constantly condemned tradesman work, and regularly refer to suing/court; albeit it would seem that you've bought a house with teething problems.

The questions in regard to recent episode has to be:

a) did you view or take up references (apart from the project managers rec)

b) did you initially believe that his hourly rate was cheap?

c) did you ask if he had suitable insurance to cover the work?

d) you mention that you and your wife are both self employed, are you a professional snagger?

 

[Softus]

With respect, I have read through your 11 posts and find that you have constantly condemned tradesman work, and regularly refer to suing/court; albeit it would seem that you've bought a house with teething problems.

Blimey; I hadn't even looked at his other topics - you're right!

Lawrenso, I take it all back. You're simply a Class A whinger and I no longer have any interest in advising you.

 

[lawrenso]

Lawrenso, I take it all back. You're simply a Class A whinger and I no longer have any interest in advising you.

My other posts have been on this matter. The reason we have had the kitchen replaced is that we have had to have the floor in the kitchen ripped out to be re-levelled due to shoddy work done by the builder - the house is only 3 years old - we had a floor that dropped 2 inches over the space of 4 mtrs with humps in it and the builder was told to fix it by the NHBC but hasn't. Admittedly we could have kept the kitchen that was in, however we wanted to try and lighten a very dark room. This has succeeded- and I suppose that it is the nature of these forums that you only get people (ie me) from outside the trade posting when they are disatisfied or they have a problem, although I have used this particular forum as reference for doing jobs and have gleamed some very good advice and pointers. We also have had some very good work carried out by some very good tradesmen/builders in the past

Softus - please note that it has been yourself that has started throwing insults into this thread also note the highlighted below

Are you working on your own home improvement project? Share tips, ideas, and frustrations with others.

But in your response (sarcasm ignored) you have put some valid advice and for that I thank you.

In regards to the tradesman - We are acting civilly towards him - as stated earlier he is somebody that I would go for a drink with. We had used him before to do some work and it was good. However between then and now he has had a serious illness and a stay in hospital and has had to pack in the booze (by his own account - 40-50 pints a week). Prior to starting we asked him if he was up to the work - and he assured us he was. However it appears that he hasn't been and keeps making quite elemental mistakes. Last Friday night was spent swapping wall units around as he had hung them with blank ends shown instead of the patterened ends. luckilly he had not screwed though any of the patterned sides. We did not even mention. He has put a light switch back on the stud wall - on the wrong side and we asked him 4 times to put it on the right side (not as easy as it sounds though as this is where the pocket door is so the cable needs taking up and coming down the other side of the frame so it doesn't interfere with the mechanism of the door). He did make a hole on the other side - but then filled it.

Patho - no I am not a snagger, I work in business and computers and I am very much like the tradesmen on this forum in this area. I have to provide good quality work to my customers or else I don't get paid. I have to be extra carefull with what I am working with or I could be exposed to claims of millions of pounds. Also, if I don't work, like a lot of tradesmen here, I don't get paid. My wife works in the care for the elderly business, and again, if she doesn't work she doesn't get paid - and she is on just above a minimum wage. but this is her vocation. If something is right then I am happy, if it is not right, then I am not happy and will seek advice from where I can. I am a member of other forums - ie related to my job and areas I am knowledgable in and provide advice on there to newbies who don't know how to search etc - and never try to spoil the thread, get personal or insult

Anyway - a simple question - is 50 hours too much time for the level of work that has been done - replacement of 8' * 9' stud wall with a pocket door mechanism in it - all unfinished (door not hung or finished), and a part kitchen install (albeit it 90% completed) but with a lot of defects which need to be rectified. Taking into account the following

The Supply of Goods and Services Act
If you've hired someone to do some work, your rights are protected by The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, which states that someone providing a service must do it:


With reasonable care and skill
In a reasonable time, if you haven't specified a completion date
For a reasonable price, if this hasn't been agreed in advance

Will I get it answered here I hope so, or will I just carry on getting abused - I hope not

Lawrenso