Kitchen sockets??

[harrisonline]

Further to an earlier post I am getting an electrician to re-wire my kitchen prior to having a new kitchen fitted.

Everything in the kitchen is going to be fitted and I have the plans to show exactly where they go.

What I want to know is where shall I tell my electrician to put the sockets? Do they go directly behind where the fitted appliance will go or beneath it??? I am having a fitted f/freezer, d/washer, w/machine and microwave. The microwave is being fitted into one of the upper units.


Thanks,

 

[kirkgas]

on the kitchen contracts we do the sparks fit an unswitched socked behind the machine with an engraved switch above the worktop to identify the appliance and allow the power to be switched off without removing the appliance

 

[sparkyspike]

What I want to know is where shall I tell my electrician to put the sockets?

An experienced electrician will know exactly where to put the sockets etc., so he will be able to advise you on this, rather than the other way round.

 

[Taylortwocities]

on the kitchen contracts we do the sparks fit an unswitched socked behind the machine with an engraved switch above the worktop to identify the appliance and allow the power to be switched off without removing the appliance

And I hate them for doing that. Especially with built in appliances.
There's a fuse in that plug, how are you supposed to access that in the event of a fault, or for PAT testing?


Better a fused connection unit above the worktop and a cable outlet below - behind if you really must.

 

[harrisonline]

An experienced electrician will know exactly where to put the sockets etc., so he will be able to advise you on this, rather than the other way round.

Hello, thanks for your reply.

In an ideal world yes . But you don't find out how good your electrician is until after he has finished the job.

If you check my uploaded photos you can see my new bathroom. I asked around for people to recommend a bathroom fitter/plumber and the one I decided on was very expensive but I thought it was worth paying the extra for a good job!... What a joke. I ripped the bathroom out the next day and me and my father did it our selves. What a cowboy he was!

The same with our consumer unit. I paid the to have a part-p electrician fit and test it when my wife wanted her uncle who was not part-p to do it for a lot less. What a load of rubbish, her uncle would have jumped over his head! He was part p but didn't have a clue what he was doing.

So. I want to tell the electrician exactly where to put everything. I am only paying him because he is part-p for the legal side of it. I don't want to fit my kitchen and rip it back out because I have chosen another peanut to do work for me.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Better a fused connection unit above the worktop and a cable outlet below - behind if you really must.

Or a type of socket which takes an unfused plug.

 

[seasickstevie]

BAS wrote:
Or a type of socket which takes an unfused plug.

I think this was mentioned a while ago.
Sorry Bas, my mind's going. can you remind me?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

15A BS 546, or CEE 7/7, Schuko or 7/7-Schuko hybrid.

 

[ericmark]

BAS I am surprised at you 15A BS 546 is OK and so is nearly every European socket except for CEE 7/7, Schuko Table 55.1 starts the section on what we can use.
Two important criteria:-
1) Not reverseable only exception is shaver socket with used an isolation transformer.
2) Shuttered type.
The German sockets fail on both counts and are not allowed to be used in UK.
Yes I know you can use plugs and adaptors but they are not fixed.
I think MK make a shuttered version of old 15 amp socket.
As to grid switches you can fit fuse holders in grid switches so you can if you so wished include fuses in an accessible position.
But the fuse should only blow if there is a fault with the appliance so likely it will need removing anyway so what's real problem with fuse in the plug?

 

[Taylortwocities]

The socket is in the wall behind the washing machine
The fuse is in the plug
The plug is in the socket
The washing machine weighs an awful lot
It is probably built in
Its full of wet washing
The water feed is connected under the sink and would have to be disconnected to allow the washing machine to be pulled forwards

etc

I go there to PAT test and I charge £1 an item to test
or
I need to access to fault find, do PIR etc

Now. how can it be OK to have a fused plug there.??


N

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAS I am surprised at you 15A BS 546 is OK and so is nearly every European socket except for CEE 7/7, Schuko Table 55.1 starts the section on what we can use.
Two important criteria:-
1) Not reverseable only exception is shaver socket with used an isolation transformer.
2) Shuttered type.
The German sockets fail on both counts and are not allowed to be used in UK.

BS 546 it is then.

They take up less room behind the appliance anyway.....

 

[rebuke]

Surely to PAT test you need to visually inspect the cable anyway, to check for any damage, so you need to pull the washing machine out anyway?

I guess if it was wired via a cable outlet you could argue it is hard wired, so doesn't need PAT testing, since it's not portable, but assuming you weren't the one who wired it in the only way you're going to know that is once you've pulled it out, or am I missing something?

 

[JohnD]

Is a built-in washing machine a Portable Appliance?

 

[seasickstevie]

Is a built-in washing machine a Portable Appliance?

No.

But is it 'Transportable'?

 

[ericmark]

I seem to remember a portable appliance is:- An appliance of less than 18 kg in mass that is intended to be moved while in operation or an appliance which can easily be moved from one place to another, e.g. toaster, food mixer. vacuum cleaner, fan heater.
This hardly includes a washing machine!
It will come under one of the following:-

Stationary equipment or appliances:-
This equipment has a mass exceeding 18 kg and is not provided with a carrying handle, e.g. refrigerator, washing machine.

Appliances/equipment for building in
This equipment is intended to be installed in a prepared recess such as a cupboard or similar. In general, equipment for building in does not have an enclosure on all sides because on one or more of the sides, additional protection against electric shock is provided by the surroundings e.g. a built-in electric cooker.

As with all electrical equipment it will require testing but because a washing machine runs on a timed cycle it can't be tested by just plugging into a PAT tester unless one is willing to sit there while it completes a cycle the norm is to get a maintenance contract out but it does normally require removal of covers and specialist knowledge of the product to be able to test and inspect.

To a lesser extent this also applies to fridges and freezers where they have an auto de-frost cycle which may only activate once a day.

MK do make 15A sockets with shutters which have same way of mounting in a socket box as the 13A socket and grid switches will also take fuses so it can be wired with remote fuse but not sure if when a fuse blows one should just renew it without inspecting the appliance?