Light Switch Help

[ban-all-sheds]

Ban-all-sheds, one of the easiest ways to learn and understand anything which is unfamiliar or unknown is to ask someone who has a good understanding of the subject. Hence my question on an electrics forum.

And hence my answer - use this forum, and other resources, to learn and understand, not to look for people to tell you which wire to put where so that you do not have to learn and understand.

Given I know where each wires comes from, goes and which is the supply wire, I thought it may be straight forward to be instructed where they go in a switch.

No, no, no, and a thousand times no.

You can be given information such that you come to learn and understand. I do not, and will never, ever agree with the idea that you should be instructed on which wire to put where so that you do not have to learn and understand.

If you are uncomfortable with the question or people offering their advice please direct your attention elsewhere.

No, no, no, and a thousand times no.

I will never, ever, go along with the dangerously irresponsible people here who have no concept of or interest in duty of care, and who act against the best interests of people visiting the site.

 

[securespark]

Plus, of course, you do not believe in correcting people when they are wrong.

"Wrong" is not always objective.

 

[securespark]

Nonononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononononono.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Well I suppose that level of arrogance pretty much sums you up BAS. I've said what's right, and that means you should listen, because I know better than you do.

It is truly unfortunate that you do not understand what that post meant.

It meant that, contrary to what JW2 said about 'the reason for, and viability of, the forum would presumably come into question - if things moved too far in that direction, the forum could be replaced with a simple notice saying "If you don't know enough to be able to do it without asking questions, and aren't prepared to (or can't afford the time to) learn how to do it, you need to get an electrician".' there were only 7 occasions in the course of an entire year where I felt it appropriate to advise people that genuine understanding was required, and that doing things by guesswork, or by following instructions which they did not understand, was foolish.

That has nothing to do with arrogance, and everything to do with believing in a duty of care, and that we should act in what are truly the questioners real best interests.

Unless, of course, you want to dismiss all moral standards better than yours as "arrogance".

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I became totally sick of having to put up with resultant and repetitive flak. Fortunately, PMs exist!

If you became sick of getting repetitive flack for behaving unconscionably, irresponsibly, and dangerously then what you should have done was to grow some morals and mend your ways.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Boy do I know where you're coming from. And we wouldn't be having this conversation if that sort of person wasn't on here.

Well, thank god I am.

Thank god that there is at least one person here who is decent.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Have you ever heard members of the emergency services giving instructions on the phone (to someone who has never done it before, and often has no relevant knowledge) how to do CPR, deliver a baby, deal with choking, profuse bleeding etc.? I've never heard it suggested that they should go and train in medicine or some paramedical discipline

F*S.

If trying to equate those with someone changing a light switch does not prove the utter moral and intellectual bankruptcy of your argument then I don't know what will.

 

[JohnW2]

I am with Bas on the principle that people who oviously haven't a clue should not be encouraged to continue electrical work.

As a general principle, I'm also with him - but it's very much a judgement call as to what one means by "haven't a clue". I would say that a high proportion of questions we get from OPs here are sufficiently simple/basic as to indicate that the person asking "hasn't got much of a clue" about anything electrical.

However, I think the term "Put this wire in that hole" is not the best phrase to use as that is what wiring diagrams are - and we all use them.

As I said, it was BAS, not me, that used that phrase. However, I'm not sure why you keep on about wiring diagrams, which neither BAS nor myself have mentioned in this discussion.

BAS's view is surely that people should not be told 'what to connect to what' if they don't understand "why" they are doing it - and that surely remains the case whether the instruction comes in the form of a spoken instruction, a written instruction, a wiring diagram, a video or anything else, doesn't it?

Plus, of course, you do not believe in correcting people when they are wrong.

That is simply not true - I spend much of my time telling people that they are wrong!

I presume that you are talking about language, and that I don't generally engage in 'correcting' people in an attempt to change 'common usage' or in an attempt to reverse established evolutions of language. Whilst that's generally true (of me), I think it is a very different matter.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

It appears to be Saturday night with a vengance!

 

[JohnW2]

"Wrong" is not always objective.

Indeed.

In fact, I would go as far as saying that, other than for scientific or mathematical 'facts' (and, even then, even 'facts' can sometimes be subsequently shown to have been wrong), it is relatively unusual for there to be an absolute objective "wrong" (or "right")

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

However, I think the term "Put this wire in that hole" is not the best phrase to use as that is what wiring diagrams are - and we all use them.

As I said, it was BAS, not me, that used that phrase.

The phrase I used, which you both seem to think you can get away with misrepresenting by misquoting was "blindly following instructions to put-this-wire-in-that-hole without any idea as to why."

If you'd like to further expose the bankruptcy of your argument by pretending that there is no difference between someone who understands what a wiring diagram is telling him and someone who is "blindly following instructions to put-this-wire-in-that-hole without any idea as to why" then go for it.

And if you do, think on.

Think about how long it really takes to learn what a switch does, and to learn how and why a pair of 2-way switches are connected so that a light can be switched from two places. Half an hour? One hour?

It's not rocket science, FGS, it really really does not take an unrealistic amount of time and effort to learn, but you just will not support the idea that people should learn.

Shame on you.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Something predictably immature

 

[mwatsonxx]

I will never, ever, go along with the dangerously irresponsible people here who have no concept of or interest in duty of care, and who act against the best interests of people visiting the site.

Your problem is your overbearing obnoxious attitude that negates your advice, be it good or bad. You should think on why your attitude has led to your banning from so many forums.

 

[bernardgreen]

I wonder how BAS deals with a SatNav that gives directions but does nothing to educate the driver in the skills of map reading and navigation.

 

[mwatsonxx]

I wonder how BAS deals with a SatNav that gives directions but does nothing to educate the driver in the skills of map reading and navigation.

Travellers should not rely on electronic guidance devices or machinery to get them to their destination. It is a personal responsibility to be qualified in extreme orienteering, wild water swimming, pot holing and mountain climbing to enable completion of all journeys.

Edit - added missing information