Does the warmfront contract to installers include balancing the existing rads when a new boiler is fitted?
I would normally do that a part of checking the system performance but as an independent I can be very helpful.
Tony
New boiler installed on an old system. Bodged job?** PICS **
- Thread starter sarahjones1975
- Start date
Does the warmfront contract to installers include balancing the existing rads when a new boiler is fitted?
I would normally do that a part of checking the system performance but as an independent I can be very helpful.
Tony
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It's a man skilled in the art of deception.
The last six pages have taught me one thing:
Never, never, never give any information which can identify the installer or whoever is paying for the work!
If you do, most of the replies will be deriding the OP for their choice of installer etc and completely irrelevant to the real problem.
Never, never, never give any information which can identify the installer or whoever is paying for the work!
If you do, most of the replies will be deriding the OP for their choice of installer etc and completely irrelevant to the real problem.
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M
mysteryman
This thread is a disgrace. It makes no difference who is paying. A good job should have been done. I as an Income and Council tax payer have been defrauded. The householder has been cheated. It is all wrong.
Yes it is.
The OP doesn't know what a Powerflush is, or at least didn't at the start. The quality of the system water is unknown. The OP was harping on about Remeha installation instructions when he/she has an Ideal.
For all we know the installer had enough f having a neurotic scientist looking over his shoulder all day.
Warmfront's existence is also a disbgrace.
I do agree that the job needs to be done to standard.
Note that the spec sheet hasn't been provided. It might, for all we know, say "Powerflush as needed.".
The OP doesn't know what a Powerflush is, or at least didn't at the start. The quality of the system water is unknown. The OP was harping on about Remeha installation instructions when he/she has an Ideal.
For all we know the installer had enough f having a neurotic scientist looking over his shoulder all day.
Warmfront's existence is also a disbgrace.
I do agree that the job needs to be done to standard.
Note that the spec sheet hasn't been provided. It might, for all we know, say "Powerflush as needed.".
P
Phill Peck
Why do people think that the nhs , fire brigade, police etc are free do have any idea what tax is for or do you not pay any?
To op your boiler was installed by warmfront. I have no simpathy for anyone who wants stuff for free then complains about it. If you want a good job done you have to pay for it simple as that. For what you have paid out you have recieved exceptional value
quite surprised with the attitude that as the op didn't pay much they shouldnt complain.
the op didnt pay full cost but the rest was paid for by all of us
a power flush was quoted in the spec and wasn't done that means somewhere a companys being paid for a job not done.
i don't know but suspect the companys that won the contract for warmfront don't hand any cash back HM revenue ,but am sure these costs are incorporated in the quotes that won them the government contract in the first place.
that means every tax payer including all the plumbers who dislike this warmfront scheme are being defrauded by these loverly hard working CEOs and not the "workshy benefit wasters"
the op didnt pay full cost but the rest was paid for by all of us
a power flush was quoted in the spec and wasn't done that means somewhere a companys being paid for a job not done.
i don't know but suspect the companys that won the contract for warmfront don't hand any cash back HM revenue ,but am sure these costs are incorporated in the quotes that won them the government contract in the first place.
that means every tax payer including all the plumbers who dislike this warmfront scheme are being defrauded by these loverly hard working CEOs and not the "workshy benefit wasters"
I would possibly suggest writing to your MP. However, he may be too busy fiddling his expenses claim, or trying to remember which house he is claiming as his main residence.
Why attack the little guy, ie. the installer, for taking a shortcut because the fatcats who run the oraganisation he works for are screwing him? He's probably just busting his jacksy to keep up with some frantic schedule.
Not saying it's right, but when the MPs at the top, and the doleites and overseas parasites at the bottom are taking advantage at every turn, it's easy to see why others who are squeezed in the middle do what they have to, to survive.
Most of the time, it's the system that makes people operate in a less than perfect way. Make the system perfect, then maybe things will change. Until then, get over the fact that life ain't perfect by a long chalk.
Spot on WS66.
Of course everyone should do their job 100% perfectly.
Of course nobody does.
But plumbing is something which everyone thinks they can be smartass clever and wise and judgmental about because it looks simple to understand what flushing means, and so on.
It's "only a plumber" doing it, so he's bound to be short on brainpower, taking shortcuts and cheating the customer, right?
Of course everyone should do their job 100% perfectly.
Of course nobody does.
But plumbing is something which everyone thinks they can be smartass clever and wise and judgmental about because it looks simple to understand what flushing means, and so on.
It's "only a plumber" doing it, so he's bound to be short on brainpower, taking shortcuts and cheating the customer, right?
Would you say that if the "little guy" was a surgeon working for the "fat cat" NHS executives? Perhaps taking a shortcut whilst performing an operation on you!? That's okay yeah?
Or, perhaps the "little guy" fireman who leaves his hose to go eat his lunch, allowing the fire he was putting out to spread to your house?
If HMRC (Warmfront grant) was charged for a powerflush and the installer didn't perform it, has the installer not just committed fraud? And that's okay yeah??
Com’on guys. If the installer was working directly for Carillion or any large company he would be on a salary, NOT paid per job! If he was a sub-contractor, he agreed & accepted the job / price with the said company.
Taking a 'shortcut' such as this is another name for "Gross Misconduct". Perhaps the guys on this thread defending the installer think that's okay? In the 'real world', gross misconduct gets you instant dismissal and fraud gets you plenty of time at Her Majesty's pleasure!
To anyone that thinks it's okay to perform a sub-standard job, I know a great place that sell's horse feed & hats!
... and you guys wonder why your industry gets such bad press!
To my thinking most people are not defending the installer per say, but there are facts missing, facts skewed and facts totally irrelevant .
All we have is the OP's rather biased opinion and no evidence as yet that a Powerflush was needed. The exact wording of the sspec shsheet hasn't been posted yet either.
Unless the 10 year old systems contents could be barreled and sold to the Arabs I wouldn't have flushed it with a machine either.
A large amount of systems DONT need machine flushing, just cleaner to go through for a while, drained, filled and then inhibited
A large amount of systems DONT need machine flushing, just cleaner to go through for a while, drained, filled and then inhibited
Well timed Dan as I just found two copies of the spec in a file. New systems and refurbs. Doesn't ask whether a flush is needed simply states there must be one before the work is started on replacements.
First the contractors. There's loads of money in each allocation but the majority is eaten up by admin. and checks and asbestos, electrical works and other things. Not defending it just telling you how it was.
As soon as criticism came efforts were made to reduce costs and of course that included laying off staff and reducing rates. When I left all the fitters took a big hit or hit the road if they could find anything else at a time when there was little else away. Not excuses but reasons.
Anyway the spec.
From Specification for the Repair of Gas Central Heating Systems and replacement boilers. Known as TS110 issued by eaga and what the contractors quoted on.
This is dated 2003 but I have revisions up to 08. It hasn’t changed much I’d guess since then if at all.
I can give you some quotes.
Page 5: section 1 Overall requirements: Ensure the client is satisfied with the work.
Page 6: Comply with Building Regs Parts B,F,G,J,L1,L2,M,P.
Page 7: Comply with British Standards. The one you’re interested in is BS 7593 Treatment of water in Domestic Hot water Heating Systems
Page 12: System Flushing: Prior to commencing any rectification or boiler replacement work the existing heating system will be flushed and rinsed to clean the pipework and radiators etc. This is to remove sludge and accumulated corrosion products etc from the system.
I think the word WILL is operative here. Remember BS 7593 allows power, mains water and gravity flushing so any will do but the TDS must be within 10% of incoming mains when complete. More than 20% system must be flushed again. (I’ve always wondered what you do between 10 and 20%!!)
A proprietary agent must be used and I think the choices were Sentinel and Fernox products.
Where flushing equipment is used (as per manufacturers instructions) it is to be used but only for a duration that will ensure the removal of the majority of the dirt.
Next paragraph: The flushing process may need to be continued where subsequent checks show that the heating system is still not clean enough.
There's enough there for the OP to put the matter to bed.
I also note the requirement to comply with Part L which has been mentioned here many times.
Sometimes I dream my whole world is held together with cable ties.
Now for the football
First the contractors. There's loads of money in each allocation but the majority is eaten up by admin. and checks and asbestos, electrical works and other things. Not defending it just telling you how it was.
As soon as criticism came efforts were made to reduce costs and of course that included laying off staff and reducing rates. When I left all the fitters took a big hit or hit the road if they could find anything else at a time when there was little else away. Not excuses but reasons.
Anyway the spec.
From Specification for the Repair of Gas Central Heating Systems and replacement boilers. Known as TS110 issued by eaga and what the contractors quoted on.
This is dated 2003 but I have revisions up to 08. It hasn’t changed much I’d guess since then if at all.
I can give you some quotes.
Page 5: section 1 Overall requirements: Ensure the client is satisfied with the work.
Page 6: Comply with Building Regs Parts B,F,G,J,L1,L2,M,P.
Page 7: Comply with British Standards. The one you’re interested in is BS 7593 Treatment of water in Domestic Hot water Heating Systems
Page 12: System Flushing: Prior to commencing any rectification or boiler replacement work the existing heating system will be flushed and rinsed to clean the pipework and radiators etc. This is to remove sludge and accumulated corrosion products etc from the system.
I think the word WILL is operative here. Remember BS 7593 allows power, mains water and gravity flushing so any will do but the TDS must be within 10% of incoming mains when complete. More than 20% system must be flushed again. (I’ve always wondered what you do between 10 and 20%!!)
A proprietary agent must be used and I think the choices were Sentinel and Fernox products.
Where flushing equipment is used (as per manufacturers instructions) it is to be used but only for a duration that will ensure the removal of the majority of the dirt.
Next paragraph: The flushing process may need to be continued where subsequent checks show that the heating system is still not clean enough.
There's enough there for the OP to put the matter to bed.
I also note the requirement to comply with Part L which has been mentioned here many times.
Sometimes I dream my whole world is held together with cable ties.
Now for the football
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