new combi boiler install: not happy

I am pretty sure that WB INSIST on at least 22mm minimum gas pipe to their boilers so that 15mm is going to blow any warrantee out of the window.

This is absolutely true. And because the MIs are clear on this point you could also end up being pulled by CORGI as well as losing warranty support.

However, larger installers can obtain a note from Worcester (in advance of fitting them of course) for their smaller boilers allowing the use of 15mm where the gas rate is not adversely affected.
 
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"Larger installers"?? The size of the installing company is irrelevant, the same applies to any installer. They send emails cofirming to anyone who asks.
However, WB's strictly unnecessary stipulation is driven by their wish to have their boilers working properly. So many installers hardly give a thought to the supply size, especially where there was already a boiler working in the same place.
It's hardly surprising. The "1mbar" requirement is pretty arbitrary, and not something a manufacturer cares about. The gas sizing tables are as we all know, wildly inaccurate.

IF you have sufficient pressure throughout the gas supply when everything's on to keep everyone happy, the pipe size doesn't matter.

The pipework should be cleaned of flux residues, and pipes shouldn't touch.
Ok it looks averagely (as Tony says) untidy, partly because of the old pipework. Apart from that, I think some plumbers are ridiculoiusly prissy about supposed "standards" of no value, which they imagine are important.

The pipes (arguably) don''t need clipping, they're fixed to the frame of the boiler.

It looks like the gate valve was inherited from the previous installation. If it's closed, it's OK, as long as WB say so, whcih they do.
A sloping pipe here or there looks untidy, but makes no difference to the performance. A few elbows more or less in the water pipes make no difference at all. Somewhere like this, bends wouldn't be any better.

He's got full flow flush points, he's powerflushed it we're told, he's got his Bonding done, he's WAY ahead of many who do a cosmetically pretty job missing out what really matters!
Well that's my rant for the day :D
 
"Larger installers"?? The size of the installing company is irrelevant, the same applies to any installer. They send emails cofirming to anyone who asks.

Our accredited installer Bosch rep says otherwise. If you are Bosch accredited, they will oblige for certain models. Not always and not for everyone, - otherwise they wouldn't print it in the MIs.

Have you been on the accredited installer two dayer?
 
"Larger installers"?? The size of the installing company is irrelevant, the same applies to any installer. They send emails cofirming to anyone who asks.

Our accredited installer Bosch rep says otherwise. If you are Bosch accredited, they will oblige for certain models. Not always and not for everyone, - otherwise they wouldn't print it in the MIs.

Have you been on the accredited installer two dayer?

Aaah, I think my installing company is an accredited Bosch installer. It's also the reason why they offered me 3 years warranty instead of the usual 2 years offered by the others, which, BTW, was one other reason why I choose them.
 
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Ok it looks averagely (as Tony says) untidy, partly because of the old pipework. Apart from that, I think some plumbers are ridiculously prissy about supposed "standards" of no value, which they imagine are important.

Well for me, all that counts is the fact that it's safe and efficient. I really couldn't care less about the level of "untidiness"... although I will mention it when the guy comes on Monday. The important bits that I will question are the 15mm vs 20mm pipes (but I might find that like some suggest it could be somehow accepted by Bosch for accredited installers), and the bypass valve (which might just be not necessary and therefore just needs to be switched off). I've also contacted Worcester Bosch about the above points and await their reply (I hope it will be before Monday).
 
Just ask the Manager if he would except it in his house.

If you employ an Professional to do work, then you are entitled to expect a reasonable standard of quality.

Installing pipes upright and level costs nothing.

Going on the state of the work on show, whats the bits you cant see like, the flue for example.

Then you have the doggy episode with the paperwork, "I'll take that with me" it sucks. I'll guarantee the signature on the bottom isn't the guy that chucked it in.
 
Well, I just had the reply from WB technical service. Here it is:
From the picture it does look like a bypass valve but without being in front of the boiler we could not be sure.

It is a building regulations to fit an automatic bypass valve on a S plan wiring system. If the installer wishes to fit a bypass on a combi system it will not have any detrimental effect on the boiler.

Worcester do not offer a system design service so we cannot comment on the operation of components that are not manufactured by ourselves, the installer or a heating engineer would have to check this.

You would not void the warranty if the pipework was in 15mm. If the working pressure at the boiler was less than 20mb +/- 2mb this would void the warranty

XXXXXX are one of our accredited installers so they are able to offer extended warranties. Your boiler is not registered on our system at this time so you would need to get your installer to call our service department to do this. The number is below.

It will not void the warranty if the installer has not filled out the log book and wishes to keep his own record.

So, that pretty much solve the pipe diameter and the logbook questions. Even if I agree that it would be better if I have the paperwork...
I'll just have to sort the valve thing.
 
And that is where you and WB are wrong.

The installer is required by Corgi, to fill the logbook out, including the installers name, signature and Registration number, notify Corgi and leave the paperwork with the client.

You will also need the paperwork under the HIP home information pack.

Insurance Company's are also starting to insist on it being available when making a claim.

The procedure of testing the gas is with all the appliances on full

Do not pay the bill until you get it.
 
And that is where you and WB are wrong.

The installer is required by Corgi, to fill the logbook out, including the installers name, signature and Registration number, notify Corgi and leave the paperwork with the client.

Do not pay the bill until you get it.

Well, on the Corgi website, it says "It is good practice to fill out this document". Good practice doesn't really mean requirement? Having said that, I agree with you and will ask if I can have at least a copy of it
 
Coppied from the WB Manual.

It always used to be a requirement of Corgi, and as far as I know still is.

USER INSTRUCTIONS & CUSTOMER
CARE GUIDE
PLEASE READ THESE INSTRUCTIONS
CAREFULLY BEFORE OPERATING YOUR
APPLIANCE
THESE INSTRUCTIONS ARE APPLICABLE TO
THE WORCESTER BOSCH APPLIANCE
MODEL(S) STATED ON THE FRONT COVER
OF THIS MANUAL ONLY AND MUST NOT BE
USED WITH ANY OTHER MAKE OR MODEL
OF APPLIANCE.
THE INSTRUCTIONS APPLY IN THE UK ONLY
AND SHOULD BE FOLLOWED EXCEPT FOR
ANY STATUTORY OBLIGATION.
IF YOU ARE IN ANY DOUBT CONTACT THE
WORCESTER BOSCH TECHNICAL HELPLINE.
DISTANCE LEARNING AND TRAINING COURSES
ARE AVAILABLE FROM WORCESTER
BOSCH.
THIS APPLIANCE MUST BE INSTALLED BY A
COMPETENT PERSON. FAILURE TO INSTALL
CORRECTLY COULD LEAD TO
PROSECUTION.
PLEASE LEAVE THIS GUIDE, THE INSTALLATION
INSTRUCTIONS AND THE COMPLETED
BENCHMARK LOG BOOK WITH THE USER OR
AT THE GAS METER AFTER INSTALLATION.
 
They send emails confirming to anyone who asks.

SimonD said:
Our accredited installer Bosch rep says otherwise.

WB technical service. - to a homeowner said:
You would not void the warranty if the pipework was in 15mm.

I've learned not to trust salesmen too much. They tell you that their product, and you, are special, because that's what you like to hear. It's frequently not true.


So why say minimum 22mm Pipe!
Perhaps because, sadly agreeing with the late Dr Driv on this: too many plumbers are dumb and lazy!
 
Chris R

I agree with most of your points above.

The only thing i would add is that Worcester technical are famous for their advice changing according to who you ask. I have seen 2 opposing pieces of advice from them in as many months.

I would advise any installer to get something in writing if it could affect their warranty, or backfire on them in a CORGI inspection visit.
 
HI,
just a quick update. After they came back this morning, I have now a logbook duly filled and signed (with Corgi IDs numbers). I should receive shortly a letter from WB and from Corgi confirming the boiler registration with them. The gas pressure at the boiler has been retested as well as the drop from the meter to the boiler and the temperature drop at the boiler and at individual radiators. OK, it was an untidy job, but since I have now confirmation by WB that gas pipe is fine and bypass valve is fine, I think I'll leave it there.
But thank you very much for all your comments: it definitely helped me pointing to what errors they made and to show them that I knew (a little bit!) what I was talking about.

Philippe
 

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