On Panorama last night.....

[pickles]

General practice attracts paedos and perverts like bees to a honey pot.

joe

Joe, is this just a wild opinion thrown out in the heat of the moment or have you got any evidence

Do a google.

Take a look through this: http://www.survivorsswindon.com/ore.htm


There are no truck drivers or plumbers - yet 3 GPs and about the same number of teachers.

Bees to a honey pot.


joe

You really are Bizzare, 3 GP's and 3 teachers is hardly proof, perhaps sex offenders should go on plumbing or driving courses, it's obviously the magic cure we have all been hoping for

 

[Brightness]

although I think that maybe you should be chaperoned to protect the public

PMSL Hermes How very true though

Joe, at the end of the day, if a woman feels that uncomfortable about seeing a male GP for an internal exam then she can always ask for a female one.

I agree with Julie on this one, I would much rather a male than a female doc or gynaecologist for that sort of examination, they are far more gentle. The worst ones I have ever come across are the Chinese women and they are really rough and quite barbaric The best I have experienced have been Jamaican male doctors. This isn't being racist btw - just stating my own personal experiences!

My own GP is a female and I must admit she is lovely. I feel equally at ease with the three male doctors in the practice too. I really am not keen on the female locum but that's just because she's useless and rude and after seeing her I have been called back into the surgery on more than one occasion by my own GP - doesn't exactly inspire much confidence!

 

[homertimpson]

I don't know what hours the average GP works, but they acknowledge themselves that they are not overworked

One GP says he is happy with his pay and work life balance - hardly reflective of the average GP.

we do not get the quality of health care in this country that is available in other parts of the world.

How many other countries provide a free system that is better than our own NHS then? No doubt if you have the means to go private you'll get a different level of service - how many citizens of this country want/have the income to go down that road?

There's a few people in this forum who have medical training although no doctors ( they're on the golf course) I would be interested to hear their views

I'll confer with me missus on that one - she's a GP. She doesn't play/have the time to frequent the golf course. Maybe just as well - a 3 iron over the skull for a one liner like that would certainly involve hospital time


I recall a similar outcry last year about a 'foreign GP' who'd earned about £6K for a weeks work - they conveniently forgot to mention that the person had worked Christmas/Boxing Day - overnights in betweeen and of course New Years Eve and Jan 1st.
I wonder how much any UK tradesman may have earned if they'd done similar shifts over the same period.

Homer

 

[Brightness]

I wonder how much any UK tradesman may have earned if they'd done similar shifts over the same period.

Homer

Well, by the time you take into account their standard £60 call out, then double it for Bank Holidays. £100 per hour labour charges (most of which are spent drinking YOUR tea or coffee or putting the World to rights), excessive parts charges and a few 'hidden extras' they might charge you for then I'd guess on quite a bit more - oh yeah and don't expect a receipt from them - it's out of hours work and so doesn't warrant one

This isn't me having a go at any tradesmen on here btw - just what I've glemaed from bitter experience! Thankfully, I now have a list of tradesmen that I can call on in an emergency, who are completely trustworthy

 

[pickles]

I don't know what hours the average GP works, but they acknowledge themselves that they are not overworked

One GP says he is happy with his pay and work life balance - hardly reflective of the average GP.

we do not get the quality of health care in this country that is available in other parts of the world.

How many other countries provide a free system that is better than our own NHS then? No doubt if you have the means to go private you'll get a different level of service - how many citizens of this country want/have the income to go down that road?

There's a few people in this forum who have medical training although no doctors ( they're on the golf course) I would be interested to hear their views

I'll confer with me missus on that one - she's a GP. She doesn't play/have the time to frequent the golf course. Maybe just as well - a 3 iron over the skull for a one liner like that would certainly involve hospital time


I recall a similar outcry last year about a 'foreign GP' who'd earned about £6K for a weeks work - they conveniently forgot to mention that the person had worked Christmas/Boxing Day - overnights in betweeen and of course New Years Eve and Jan 1st.
I wonder how much any UK tradesman may have earned if they'd done similar shifts over the same period.

Homer

Sorry I'm to lazy to get the quote thingys to work but in the order you've made them:

The Guardian article was about GP's in general not just one. They spoke to him as an example of the point they were making

Most European countries have superior health care systems. France is rated first, followed by Italy, The UK comes 18th in the world.

Golf is optional, sorry to have caused offence, the question is does your missus have time to do what she wants

I'm not objecting anyones rate of pay or what they do with themselves, I do not like the fact that free health care in this country is very far from the standard it should be. I have learned that from bitter experience having used it and also used private health care that was incomparably better in every possible way. Sadly part of the benefit of private care is the very much more positive attitude people have when there is a direct relationship between their work output and their monthly pay cheque. I put that down to human nature and would doubt that a free system can ever overcome that problem

I really do think people should wake up to the fact that they are being sold short in the NHS. The sad fact is that if you don't have access to private health care you run a much greater risk of dying or suffering lasting consequences than if you do

 

[empip]

Just for info ...
The occupations with the highest earnings in 2005 were 'Health professionals', (median pay of full-time employees of £1,021 a week), followed by 'Corporate managers' (£663) and 'Science and technology professionals' (£633).

BTW. the Guardian from 11th May 2005 Click for LINK

The picture of high-earning GPs came to light after an annual survey of family doctor's pay revealed that nearly half of GPs earn more than £100,000 a year and 6% have broken the £150,000 barrier.

The survey by the Association of Independent Medical Accountants (AISMA) revealed that 43% of family doctors earned more than £100,000 in 2003-04 which represents a 20% increase on the previous 12 months. The number of family doctors earning more than £150,000 during the same period doubled from 3% to 6%.

But for GPs who work under the personal medical services (PMS) scheme - where their contract is negotiated locally with their primary care trusts - those hitting the £150,000 mark now reaches 12%, the survey showed.

Just think of the pensions .... 40/80ths of big (plus 3x that as TF lump sum) is pretty large .. Where will the money come from?

 

[JohnD]

But surely MPs do better?

 

[Brightness]

OK then, for all of you who think that the average GP is on a wage in excess of £100K a year then I've just found this....


Q FIN29 - Pay for salaried GPs - What is the current pay scale for salaried GPs? (10/06/04)

Answer - The report of the Review Body on Doctors' and Dentists' Remuneration for 2004 sets out that the salary range for salaried General Medical Practitioners (GMPs) employed by Primary Care Organisations should be £47,710 to £72,478 for 2004-05


It's on this site http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/lmclive/index.html imho, why shouldn't GP's earn this much money? They spend 5 years at uni (longer than any other course i know of) and then have an extra five years training on the job! If I'd done all that and then only earned £30 a year I think I'd be a tad upset. The figures above are definitely more realistic.

 

[JohnD]

"Salary Range" is not the same as "Earnings".

Special payments, benefits, bonuses, awards, overtime, out-of-hours payments, special payment for prescribing and "reviewing" new drug for the drug companies; payments by life assurance cos and employers for medical reports; death certs... none of that's "salary".

 

[pickles]

Brightness, there is a difference between a salaried GP eg a locum or employee and a partner. The Partners own the premises and the goodwill of the Practice and they share it's profits which come out per head at the figures quoted eg between £100 - £150,000

A salaried GP just works for them so they get paid less. Most Dr's will start out salaried hoping to become partners so it's a career progression

They are undoubtedly very well paid. I dont think anyones saying they shouldn't be paid properly, but the point is the service is just not as good as it should be, Uk health care comes 18th in the world so were not getting the best return on our money

 

[Brightness]

Pickles, I am aware of the difference between the two you know .

I should be, I worked in the health profession for long enough *yawns*

OK then so if you're trying to say that a GP who owns his practice isn't allowed to make decent money then would you say the same about some guy who owns his own company in another field?

I agree that in some areas of the country the services might not be as good but I really can't complain about any of the health care I have ever received. Yeah some Docs get things wrong - they are allowed to be human you know

Personally, I still think they deserve every penny they get.

Now then didn't somebody mention MP's??????? What about the ones who do sod all but still get paid a whack? Thankfully ours works for his money

 

[joe-90]

General practice attracts paedos and perverts like bees to a honey pot.

joe

Joe, is this just a wild opinion thrown out in the heat of the moment or have you got any evidence

Do a google.

Take a look through this: http://www.survivorsswindon.com/ore.htm


There are no truck drivers or plumbers - yet 3 GPs and about the same number of teachers.

Bees to a honey pot.


joe

You really are Bizzare, 3 GP's and 3 teachers is hardly proof, perhaps sex offenders should go on plumbing or driving courses, it's obviously the magic cure we have all been hoping for

3 gps and 3 teachers out of how many? No plumbers or brickies. This is child pornography that they have been caught for - and out of a few professions GPs are very well represented. Like I said the GPs surgery is a honey pot for perverts.


joe

 

[joe-90]

I would much rather a male than a female doc or gynaecologist for that sort of examination, they are far more gentle.

Of course they are, they are enjoying it.


joe

 

[JulieL/B]

I would much rather a male than a female doc or gynaecologist for that sort of examination, they are far more gentle.

Of course they are, they are enjoying it.


joe

Here we go again!!!

 

[pickles]

Pickles, I am aware of the difference between the two you know .

I should be, I worked in the health profession for long enough *yawns*

OK then so if you're trying to say that a GP who owns his practice isn't allowed to make decent money then would you say the same about some guy who owns his own company in another field?

I agree that in some areas of the country the services might not be as good but I really can't complain about any of the health care I have ever received. Yeah some Docs get things wrong - they are allowed to be human you know

Personally, I still think they deserve every penny they get.

Now then didn't somebody mention MP's??????? What about the ones who do s** all but still get paid a whack? Thankfully ours works for his money

I haven't suggested GP's shouldn't be well paid. I think you need to read my posts again. I certainly do think they are very well rewarded for what they do now

I am complaining about the fact that we the tax payer are not getting value for money, we are 18th in the world ranking behind just about every other developed nation

You may think you are getting good health care but the fact is, compared to the rest of the developed world you are not

I had a conversation with a South African nurse who said to me, unprompted, that one of the things she liked about working in the UK is that you get to see various medical conditions at a more advanced stage because primary care is so slow in picking them up. I found that extremely worrying. She said she had been suprised by some of the things she had seen over here which I thought was pretty incredible coming from some one from her background

Did you know that the French are advised that if they get ill in the UK the should try to get home rather than get medical treatment here

Because we are lay people we don't really understand that sometimes the advice we get just isn't as good as it should be. Every time I have a brush with GP's for one reason or another I end up concluding that things could have been done faster and better. It may just be my personal experience but it's a remakably consistent one

What I am saying is that the system they operate in prevents them operating at optimum efficiency and we are the ones that suffer. The NHS used to be the envy of the world and the present situation is rather tragic

It all comes down to the fact that people are not prepared to pay for the system they actually need, they want to pay low levels of personal tax and then have to suffer the consequences

As far as politicians are concerned I think that all of them are a plague on all our houses as the old saying goes. I wouldn't personally cross the road to piddle on them if their backsides were on fire