Raydar it's not "irrelivant" or "irrelavant", it's irrelevant same as your opinions, seeing as you don't know what you are talking about.
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Opinions on kit ??
- Thread starter stevebamford
- Start date
No. You are.
Ah, I see the problem - you've accidentally posted in the Plumbing and Central Heating forum, whereas you should have shoved your pointless, factually incorrect and badly spelt observations on the Whining and Central Bleating forum. Please click here.
Under the legal umbrella of 'sale of goods' etc, your contract is with the installer, as he would have supplied the goods, his contract is with his supplier, and theirs is with the manufacturer, this is always there and comes under the 'your statutory rights are not affected' or whatever.
The manufacturer is under no legal obligation to offer extended warranties, but it would be commercial suicide if they did not.
If, as in my case, I fit an Ecotec Plus, I will, note not have to, go out the same day to the customer if it develops a fault. Again, commercial suicide if I don't, as I rely on 90% word of mouth recommendation. I then contact the manufacturer and book the warranty call, if the customer does this themselves, to which they are perfectly entitled to do, then if upon inspection the fault is elsewhere on the system, the manufacturer MAY then charge around £180 for the call out.
So I have to make an allowance in the quoted price, for these possible call outs. No difference in practice to the likes of Baxi, who offer a 2 year warranty on their duo-tec range, but a 5 year warranty on the platinum range, exactly the same boiler but a few hundred pounds dearer to cover the extra warranty.
OP, perhaps I was a bit harsh in places, apologies, but we read posts like this many, many times, with most from people who think they have a given right to expect something for nothing.
I can assure you it does become tiresome after a point.
The manufacturer is under no legal obligation to offer extended warranties, but it would be commercial suicide if they did not.
If, as in my case, I fit an Ecotec Plus, I will, note not have to, go out the same day to the customer if it develops a fault. Again, commercial suicide if I don't, as I rely on 90% word of mouth recommendation. I then contact the manufacturer and book the warranty call, if the customer does this themselves, to which they are perfectly entitled to do, then if upon inspection the fault is elsewhere on the system, the manufacturer MAY then charge around £180 for the call out.
So I have to make an allowance in the quoted price, for these possible call outs. No difference in practice to the likes of Baxi, who offer a 2 year warranty on their duo-tec range, but a 5 year warranty on the platinum range, exactly the same boiler but a few hundred pounds dearer to cover the extra warranty.
OP, perhaps I was a bit harsh in places, apologies, but we read posts like this many, many times, with most from people who think they have a given right to expect something for nothing.
I can assure you it does become tiresome after a point.
Retail price for above boiler from national plumbing supplier is £ 1955.20 inc vat. (boiler only)
Their trade catalogue price is £ 1664.00 + vat (£1955.20)
Your installer has already reduced the cost by £ 392.45.
More than likely he has included flue and timer in his quote, saving you even more.
How much more discount do you want, next thing you will ask is the installer fits it for free
Sorry gasman your price is totally outrages
I'll fit it for £999999.00 + Vat
]
Ahh but mine was inclusive 
Bargain IMO 
PRICE WAW, PRICE WAR
Unfortunately my less 75% extended Easter bonanza sale ended last week
Sound a bit like MFI now
Unfortunately my less 75% extended Easter bonanza sale ended last week
Sound a bit like MFI now
Softus
Where you going ALL inclusive.
Where you going ALL inclusive.
If we knew what you did for a living then it would help us to understand your unusual attitude.
What we can see from your other posting about having a boiler fitted for you by a Worcester engineer working on the side, then its clear that you are solely interested in bypassing the usual correct installation and get a "cash" job done by someone working illegally and unable to give you the correct paperwork.
Professionals on this site would be expected to give the "correct" advice in relation to boiler installations. Thats bound to be more expensive that unqualified people doing illegal installations.
We will happily fit clients own boilers as we charge a fixed price for an installation and just charge the cost price of the boiler. But as stated above we would give slightly less backup if the customer insisted on supplying the boiler themselves.
Another fact is that there is no longer any "trade price". An installer is likely to pay the same or even slightly more as most buy locally over the counter. The cheapest prices are often obtained from mail order suppliers. They are not usually very convenient for installers as the delivery requires somebody at home all day to receive it. They often arrive damaged as well as they are sometimes not handled very carefully as they are heavy and the driver cannot easily load/unload them on his own.
Tony
That's just rubbish. We know what you claim to do for a living, but it in no way explains your attitude.
Also rubbish. If you're not getting trade prices it's probably because of your checked shirt.
G
Goldspoon
This started as a couple of lines but I got carried away...
I suppose things have changed over recent years... householders can now purchase the same items as tradesman at the same prices without setting up accounts (e.g. Screwfix etc.). A tradesman would once get a £100 rrp item for £70 trade and make £30 by charging the customer rrp. Primarily due to the Internet, trade prices are now available to all to a degree and this makes marking up more fraught.
If a plumber buys a basin then he is adding a service that needs charging for. He fetches the product (or arranges delivery); he provides cashflow to buy it; he becomes responsible for replacing it (plus associated labour/time costs) if it arrives damaged/faulty/wrong part etc. and there is also a grey area of who is to rectify a problem at some stage further on down the line). The questions are:
What to charge for this service (mark up)?
What information to give to the customer?
Shops DO NOT provide the customer with information on what they paid for the goods. However, there is a difference: we all KNOW that the price a shop quotes INCLUDES the shops overheads (labour, lighting, insurance, advertising, owner's car etc.). We know that we should shop around. Now if a plumber quoted an overall price for the job and does not specify the costs of materials separately then one can argue all is well with the world. "This is what it will cost you to have brand X basin fitted in your bathroom".
But if a plumber quotes for "materials" or "boiler" then I believe that the situation has changed somewhat. It can reasonably be assumed that a customer might think that "materials" means "materials" and "boiler" means "boiler" and an element of doubt is introduced. If "materials" means "materials plus a holiday for my mate Geoff" or "materials plus £200 because you look a bit old and daft" then the customer maybe has a right to know this. If "boiler" means "boiler plus £400 because it might go wrong and I'll be there like a flash if it does" then maybe the customer should be aware of this situation. Of course this is a moral, rather than legal argument. Imagine the scenario: your old mother has just had a boiler installed and as well as the labour the cost of the boiler was £1500. YOU know that it sells for £1000 all over the place.
Mother: "But the nice man says he will come back if it goes wrong".
You: "And do you pay him per hour if he does come back?"
Mother: "I don't know"
You: "How long does this arrangement last? Are parts included? What if he's too busy... on holiday? Did he sign anything?
Mother: ...silence...
As a customer... if my plumber fitted a basin for me and charged me for materials (inc. basin) I would expect him to be "reasonable" and would not wish to check him out on this. A reasonable price is difficult to determine but would probably be defined, for myself anyway, as "somewhere between what he paid for it and what one would generally pay, at most, for the same thing, from a trustworthy source" PLUS a percentage to cover time ordering or fetching/researching/knowing what to buy/chance of faulty or wrong part delivered etc.
If he got the basin for £50 and charged me £100 and it was for sale in B&Q at £60 then I would feel that a certain degree of trust has been lost (quite a lot of trust at that price!). But if he charged me £60 and added 20% on (now £72) I would consider this reasonable. His contrribution towards his overheads is £22.
The difficulty is when Online Supplier sells at £50 and Big DIY Store sell at £80. Of course plumber buys for £50 but does he charge £50 plus 20% or £80 +20%. One could argue that were a householder to do the job themselves they would most likely travel to Big DIY Store so would pay the higher price so let's use this as the starting basis. But nowadays there are a lot more savvy consumers out there and they might find this method rather hard to swallow. The same applies to small items - I have seen 15mm iso valves at £3-50 and £1 - which price to charge the customer whilst retaining a feeling of integrity.
I feel that a good way to go is the amount I paid for it plus 20% and to add this fact to my Terms and Conditions.
If the higher price IS covering some kind of longer term warranty then this really needs specifying i.e. price includes warranty to XXX specification. Just whacking a few hundred pounds on to a boiler without specifying why is not how I would do it. I would specify in my Terms and Conditions that there is a 20% markup for reasons mentioned above and £X or X% added for a warranty described as <insert details of warranty>.[/i]
I suppose things have changed over recent years... householders can now purchase the same items as tradesman at the same prices without setting up accounts (e.g. Screwfix etc.). A tradesman would once get a £100 rrp item for £70 trade and make £30 by charging the customer rrp. Primarily due to the Internet, trade prices are now available to all to a degree and this makes marking up more fraught.
If a plumber buys a basin then he is adding a service that needs charging for. He fetches the product (or arranges delivery); he provides cashflow to buy it; he becomes responsible for replacing it (plus associated labour/time costs) if it arrives damaged/faulty/wrong part etc. and there is also a grey area of who is to rectify a problem at some stage further on down the line). The questions are:
What to charge for this service (mark up)?
What information to give to the customer?
Shops DO NOT provide the customer with information on what they paid for the goods. However, there is a difference: we all KNOW that the price a shop quotes INCLUDES the shops overheads (labour, lighting, insurance, advertising, owner's car etc.). We know that we should shop around. Now if a plumber quoted an overall price for the job and does not specify the costs of materials separately then one can argue all is well with the world. "This is what it will cost you to have brand X basin fitted in your bathroom".
But if a plumber quotes for "materials" or "boiler" then I believe that the situation has changed somewhat. It can reasonably be assumed that a customer might think that "materials" means "materials" and "boiler" means "boiler" and an element of doubt is introduced. If "materials" means "materials plus a holiday for my mate Geoff" or "materials plus £200 because you look a bit old and daft" then the customer maybe has a right to know this. If "boiler" means "boiler plus £400 because it might go wrong and I'll be there like a flash if it does" then maybe the customer should be aware of this situation. Of course this is a moral, rather than legal argument. Imagine the scenario: your old mother has just had a boiler installed and as well as the labour the cost of the boiler was £1500. YOU know that it sells for £1000 all over the place.
Mother: "But the nice man says he will come back if it goes wrong".
You: "And do you pay him per hour if he does come back?"
Mother: "I don't know"
You: "How long does this arrangement last? Are parts included? What if he's too busy... on holiday? Did he sign anything?
Mother: ...silence...
As a customer... if my plumber fitted a basin for me and charged me for materials (inc. basin) I would expect him to be "reasonable" and would not wish to check him out on this. A reasonable price is difficult to determine but would probably be defined, for myself anyway, as "somewhere between what he paid for it and what one would generally pay, at most, for the same thing, from a trustworthy source" PLUS a percentage to cover time ordering or fetching/researching/knowing what to buy/chance of faulty or wrong part delivered etc.
If he got the basin for £50 and charged me £100 and it was for sale in B&Q at £60 then I would feel that a certain degree of trust has been lost (quite a lot of trust at that price!). But if he charged me £60 and added 20% on (now £72) I would consider this reasonable. His contrribution towards his overheads is £22.
The difficulty is when Online Supplier sells at £50 and Big DIY Store sell at £80. Of course plumber buys for £50 but does he charge £50 plus 20% or £80 +20%. One could argue that were a householder to do the job themselves they would most likely travel to Big DIY Store so would pay the higher price so let's use this as the starting basis. But nowadays there are a lot more savvy consumers out there and they might find this method rather hard to swallow. The same applies to small items - I have seen 15mm iso valves at £3-50 and £1 - which price to charge the customer whilst retaining a feeling of integrity.
I feel that a good way to go is the amount I paid for it plus 20% and to add this fact to my Terms and Conditions.
If the higher price IS covering some kind of longer term warranty then this really needs specifying i.e. price includes warranty to XXX specification. Just whacking a few hundred pounds on to a boiler without specifying why is not how I would do it. I would specify in my Terms and Conditions that there is a 20% markup for reasons mentioned above and £X or X% added for a warranty described as <insert details of warranty>.[/i]
Hmmmmmmmm !!!
As stated previously, do you question Asda or Bensons Beds bout how much THEY got it for ???
I wont justify my prices to anybody as we all provide a different service so cannot compare with other RGI's !!
If the customer dont like my price then they are welcome to supply their own parts and Ill quote Labour alone, but any problems with the parts are their own and I MAY charge if the problem holds me up or puts me out!!
More often than not, the customer gets it wrong and orders wrong parts or not all the parts needed which I then have to locate and provide ,,, if I had done the lot then I would have ordered all correct parts needed and they would be on my vehicle at the start or my supplier would be delivering them whilst im on site doing the job.. its called planning
As stated previously, do you question Asda or Bensons Beds bout how much THEY got it for ???
I wont justify my prices to anybody as we all provide a different service so cannot compare with other RGI's !!
If the customer dont like my price then they are welcome to supply their own parts and Ill quote Labour alone, but any problems with the parts are their own and I MAY charge if the problem holds me up or puts me out!!
More often than not, the customer gets it wrong and orders wrong parts or not all the parts needed which I then have to locate and provide ,,, if I had done the lot then I would have ordered all correct parts needed and they would be on my vehicle at the start or my supplier would be delivering them whilst im on site doing the job.. its called planning
G
Goldspoon
Hmmmmmmmm !!!
As stated previously, do you question Asda or Bensons Beds bout how much THEY got it for ???
I did mention this briefly in my post
Also a customer might ask why ABC is £20 in Asda and £18 in Tesco and Asda should have a reasonable answer.
There might not be a right or wrong in this - for me it's just an interesting discussion. Anybody has a right to quote whatever they wish and a customer has the right to question that price. It's how one justifies that price, were one to choose to do so, that I find interesting.
What will happen though is that, at some stage, a customer will ask the question and it is good to be ready for that question...
"I notice your quote says £1400 for the boiler plus £1000 to fit it... but I have seen that boiler on XYX website for £1000. Can you explain why please as I am thinking of ordering it myself to save dipping into the kids inheritance?"
Now I think the question is very fair and so should the answer be. Saying to the customer "try asking Asda what they pay for a tin of beans" just aint going to work in this situation as customer will be a little upset.
Vague answers about warranty blah blah would put me on guard - mainly because there are those who just whack a sum on because they can get away with it. If a warranty is the reason then give me the details because I do not want to spend £400 on a warranty unless it has some kind of substance.
So simple answer to customer is to say - I add 20% to all materials purchased to cover costs and to ensure that you do not have to deal with faulty products or delivery issues etc. AND here is a copy of my warranty, above and beyond the call of duty, that I provide if I obtain the goods. Feel free to order it yourself if you wish but if the product is faulty you will need to deal with the company yourself.
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